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Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn AS25G inside a 25G tower

To: bcarling@cfl.rr.com, towertalk@contesting.com, K8RI-on-TowerTalk@tm.net
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn AS25G inside a 25G tower
From: TexasRF--- via TowerTalk <towertalk@contesting.com>
Reply-to: TexasRF@aol.com
Date: Sun, 10 May 2015 08:03:15 -0400
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Bruce, to add another piece to your puzzle: Using a 1.5" mast sounds like  
you have a 25AG or 20AG top section that was intended for use with a 1.25" 
mast.  These top sections are made with a top tube about 1.7" i.d. and a 
reducing  collar welded to the end of the tube to make a 1.25" mast fit. The 
25AG and 20AG  tops were made to fit a small rotator for tv use.
 
Many of these top sections are around that have the collar removed to allow 
 use of a 1.66" o.d. water pipe mast.
 
I have not seen one for ages and don't recall the exact rotator mounting  
arrangements. They likely are different from the current 25AG2 design.
 
73,
Gerald K5GW
 
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 5/10/2015 6:24:52 A.M. Central Daylight Time,  
bcarling@cfl.rr.com writes:

Thanks  ROger,

Again this is an 8 foo tlong mast going inside a 9 foot top  section, so 
therefore the rotor plate 
must go somewhere in th emiddle in  the section of 25G and this is not 
obviously possible to  
do...

Several folks e-mailed me off the list. They too apparently  have never run 
across this 
problem...

Here is another reminder of  the issue from Bruce Ferratt, facing a similar 
situation to mine 
with an  AS25G (although I am not needing a thrust bearing) from this group 
a few years  ago:

>>Hello.
If one wants to use a thrust bearing on a Rohn  25G and have a rotor plate 
too, the accessory shelf will only fit at the  very top of the 'top 
section',... this is where there is no  zig-zag/crossbar in the Rohn 
tower,... or down at the very next section  (9-10ft down)  One needs to use 
two (2) shelves for this  configuration.  The only way an AS25G plate will 
fit about 4-5ft down  in the top section is if you: 1) cut a crossbar 
out,...OUCH! and there  goes the integrity of the top section ( I guess you 
could re-weld this  back) or, 2) cut the plate down and notch it for the 
rotor  install.

I think that using a mast that goes down further inside (10ft  to the next 
section) is overkill for my application.  I am mounting a  Tribander with a 
stacked vertical for 2m/440. Thanks for your  recommendations!
73
Bruce
K4BOF


On 10 May 2015 at 6:55,  Roger (K8RI) on TT wrote:

> It's been awhile, but IIRC I had no  problems installing the shelf made 
> for the 25G in the 25G.  I  had to shim the 45G shelf in the 45G with 
> 1/8th in X 1" shims, but  nothing on the 25G.  It was a snug fit and took 
> a little moving  the shelf around to get it in place.  I did install the 
> shelf  some 5' below the top .  I used the flat plate top on a regular 
>  tower section as I do in the 45G.
> 
> I'd like to find a fold  over, crank up to replace the 100' 45G.
> 
> 73
> 
>  Roger (K8RI)
> 
> 
> 
> On 5/9/2015 9:21 PM, Bry  Carling AF4K wrote:
> > Greetings - This is not a new topic by any  means, but here is my 
dilemma:
> >
> > I have a Rohn 25AG2  top section (I believe) and also a 25ASG rotator 
shelf both courtesy  of
> > Bill K4XS.  I would like to install the shelf plate  inside a 25AG2 (I 
think it is) top section that is
> > 9 feet long,  to support my HAM-M rotator. I also have a nice alloy 
mast from Bill that is 8  feet
> > long and 1.5" diameter. I would like to have the mast stick  out a few 
feet above the top of the
> > tower. This seems to not be  easy to accomplish. The rotator shelf will 
not go into the tower
> >  section. There seem to b esome hack solutions that might work, but...
>  >
> > I have read a few horror stories from fellows trying to  install the 
HAM-M and rotator plate
> > inside a 25G mast.  What  is the best approach to this, given that the 
plate will not go inside
>  > the tower section?
> >
> > ANY insights would be deeply  appreciated... Here is the history I 
found from this list. There
> >  was discussion about cutting away part of the 25G's horizontal or 
diagonal  braces in order to
> > install these items. That sounds like a bad  idea.  What is the best 
solution please? Perhaps I
> > am  missing something here...
> >
> > Brian Carling,  AF4K
> >
> >> I am getting ready to install a Ham-4  rotator in a Rohn 25AG3 top 
section.
> >> The 25AG3 doesn't have  enough room in the "open" area at the top of 
the
> >> section to  accomodate the height of the rotator.  The rotator is too 
big to
>  >> push down further into the tower and will not rotate inside the tower 
 except
> >> where the tower sections join together.
> >  >From reading later messages on this subject, it appears that your top 
is  not
> > really a 25AG3.  Later, you said you thought it was a  25AG.  In fact, 
I am
> > reading lots of confusing data on this  relector about Rohn tops that 
does
> > not agree with my Rohn  book.  For example, K7LXC says there are 5 Rohn 
tops
> > and I  think there are 6, not counting the short tops.  My book says 
there  is
> > a 25AG, 25AG1, 25AG2, 25AG3, 25AG4, and 25AG5.  All of  them are "pipe 
tops"
> > of one sort or another except the 25AG4  which is a "flat top".
> >
> > On two of them, the pipe  extends down into the top section far enough 
to
> > probably  interfere with installing a rotator.  These two are the 25AG1 
and
>  > the 25AG2.  The 25AG1 has a piece of standard 1 1/4" pipe installed  
in it
> > and it is too small to accept a 2 inch OD mast.  The  25AG2 has a 2.25" 
OD 14
> > guage pipe and it WILL accept a 2 inch OD  mast, so I conclude that you 
must
> > have a 25AG1.  But you  also said you were using 1 1/2 inch pipe for a 
mast
> > and have to  shim it.  This is confusing since 1 1/2 pipe will 
obviously not
>  > fit inside of a 1 1/4 inch pipe which is what the 25AG1 has.  I  
believe you
> > also mentioned you got a second top used real cheap  and it had a large 
hole
> > in it.  So do you have one top or  two and which one is it?
> >
> > Another thing you said was  that you were using 1 1/2 inch pipe for a 
mast.
> > DON'T.  I  believe that would be water pipe and there has been TONS of
> >  information about problems with using water pipe for masts, not to  
mention
> > they don't fit without shims into a standard 2 inch  thrust bearing, 2 
inch
> > ID pipe top, or any Ham-M, II, III, IV, or  Tailtwister.  Rohn makes a 
10
> > foot mast (M200H) that will  work for most modest installations.  If 
you need
> > something  stronger or longer than that, talk to K5RC at Productivity 
Resources.
>  >
> >> It looks like the best place for it is at the top of the  "next to top"
> >> section. The rotator should rotate freely  there, but how do I get it 
in or
> >> out without lifting the top  section and the antenna?
> > I have two Rohn 25 towers with rotators  installed at the top of the 
section
> > just below the top  section.  One of them has a Tailtwister in it and 
the
> > other  has a Ham IV.  They both work just fine and have for 23 years.  
To  get
> > the rotators in the tower, I cut one of the horizontal braces  out of 
the
> > bottom of the top section (and yes, Steve, you DO have  to cut a 
horizontal
> > brace out to get the rotator mounted in this  location.)  I did not 
bother to
> > reinstall the cut brace and  it has not caused me any problems so far.
> >
> > Other  items worth commenting on are these:
> >
> > I agree with  Steve, K7LXC, that a Ham M, II, III, or IV can be 
squeezed into
> > a  Rohn 25 just about anywhere without cutting any braces.  I have done 
 it.
> > The only place it won't fit is through the "square" formed by  the 
horizontal
> > braces at the top of one section, the horizontal  braces at the bottom 
of the
> > next section above it and the tower  legs.  I never thought I could get 
the
> > rotator inside the  tower through one of those "triangles" either, but 
it
> > will go if  you do it right.
> >
> > Another comment I have seen is that  once a Ham IV is inside of Rohn 
25, it
> > will "free fall" down the  inside of it.  Not true.  The "ears" on the 
Ham IV
> >  casting are too large to go past the horizontal braces.  This is why  
you
> > have to cut one horizontal brace out of the top section to  put a Ham 
IV at
> > the top of the second section from the top.   You can get the Ham IV 
inside
> > the tower OK, but you can't slide  it down past the set of horizontal 
braces
> > at the bottom of the  top section.
> >
> > Yet another comment from Steve is that  the AS25G accessory shelf will 
mount
> > just about anywhere inside a  25G section.  I don't agree with this 
statement
> > since the  AS25G interferes with the diagonal braces which are almost
> >  everywhere in a 25G section or top.  Of course, you could modify the  
AS25G
> > by cutting away some metal to clear the diagonal braces, or  you could 
cut
> > out another set of diagonal braces so a standard  AS25G will fit, but I 
would
> > not recommend this since it would  weaken the tower considerably.
> >
> > I have designed a  prototype of a new Rohn 25 rotator shelf which 
clears the
> >  diagonal braces in 25G and would truly allow installation of a Ham IV  
just
> > about anywhere in a 25G section or top without cutting out  any braces 
at
> > all.  Maybe I should consider making a  production run of these shelves 
since
> > it seems to solve a common  problem for which there is currently no easy
> > solution.
>  >
> > Is there a demand for such a self priced at about  $40?
> >
> > Stan  w7ni@teleport.com
>  >
> >
> >
> > ------- End of forwarded message  -------
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> >
>  >
> >
> >  _______________________________________________
> > TowerTalk mailing  list
> > TowerTalk@contesting.com
> >  http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
> 
>  
> -- 
> 
> 73
> 
> Roger (K8RI)
>  
> 
> ---
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