Not if the "savvy ham" can't hear them!
The point of low loss coax is to hear them. How much added money is worth
how many more marginal contacts? That's the question to be answered here.
FWIW, coax is one place I have never scrimped. It's true you might only
get a dB or two, for a fair amount of added cost. But on some paths,
that's the difference between working 'em and hearing others do it.
Now, I don't go totally hog wild either. There's no hardline on my HF
feedlines. But, there tends to be the good LMR stuff even if it isn't
strictly cost-effective. Before LMR existed, you tended to see 9913 for as
much of the length as I could manage. YMMV.
Most of my installations last for five years and more, so the pro-rated
cost per contact is pretty cheap compared to my rigs and my antennas.
WO7R
On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 6:37 PM, Don <w7wll@arrl.net> wrote:
> The ham with the finest antennas and feedlines, and big power still won't
> stand a chance against the A-1 operator who knows savy operating techniques
> (usually will pull in contacts from under the former's nose).
>
> Don W7WLL
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Grant Saviers
> Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 2:32 PM
> To: kz8e@wt.net ; towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [Bulk] Coax cable economics. (was Mosley Antenna
> Question)
>
>
> Add Davis RF Buryflex to your list - loss almost the same as
> LMR400/9913. 500' is $0.85/ft. The polyethylene jacket is far better
> than 9913's and LMR400. Sorry I ever bought the 9913!
>
> re hardline: LDF4 is frequently available on ebay at around $1/ft and
> has half the db loss and very long life, and real Andrew connectors also
> around $12 ea too. LDF5 (7/8") is a bit pricey and rare on ebay, but
> 0.195db/100ft at 30MHz. I'm looking for a few hundred feet.
>
> Grant KZ1W
> a few tenths of a db here and there and pretty soon there is 3db.
>
>
> On 2/18/2015 1:38 PM, Earl Morse wrote:
>
>> Coaxial cable here is bought in quantities of 500'. Scraps less than
>> 100' get hauled off to the hamfest.
>>
>> Looking at price per foot of 3 popular types of 1/2" coax we have:
>>
>> LMR400 $1.18/ft or $589.99/500 ft roll
>> RG213 $0.83/ft or $412.99/500 ft roll
>> 9913 $1.12/ft or $559.99/500 ft roll
>>
>>
>> Loss/100 ft of these @ 30MHz is:
>>
>> LMR400 0.7 dB
>> RG213 1.2 dB
>> 9913 0.7 dB
>>
>> At this frequency the loss in a 500' run (@30 MHz) would be:
>>
>> LMR400 3.5 dB
>> RG213 6.0 dB
>> 9913 3.5 dB
>>
>> Crunching these numbers, 2.5 dB can be gained from spending either an
>> extra $177 for the LMR400 or $147 for the 9913 over the RG213. This is
>> just for 30 MHz and a 500 foot run. Losses would be lower at lower
>> frequencies and higher at higher frequencies especially when the dielectric
>> loss properties of the cable kick in. Your run may be shorter, hopefully
>> not longer. It starts to add up and an amplifier starts to look like a
>> good deal where you can get 10 dB on all bands for the same price.
>>
>> These cables can all use the same cheap (but not too cheap) PL259
>> connector. You might get a chunk of free 50 ohm 7/8" Heliax and spend $150
>> for connectors.
>>
>> There are tons of other cables available. They all have different
>> properties. They all have advantages and disadvantages. Your application
>> may need direct burial or need to be very flexible. You may be phasing
>> something and require something that needs a specific phase velocity. I
>> have seen guys use aluminum jacketed 75 ohm CATV hard line where connectors
>> are soldered to it with a pigtail and the shield is clamped to the aluminum
>> jacket with a hose clamp then the whole thing gets a milk jug or bleach
>> bottle shoved over the top of it. Hey, the cable is free.
>>
>> As with everything in life. Check the fine print. Figure out your
>> cost/Bel. Take into account the frequency you are using and what exactly
>> it is you want to do.
>>
>> If price/Bel is no object, then get your bank book out, give me a call,
>> and I will build you a dream station. Heck, if we are talking contract I
>> will even come over and operate it for you.
>>
>> Oh yeah, someday you will probably have to replace all that coax,
>> probably around 10-15 years when the rest of the station starts breaking
>> down. (I'm at 12 years now and over due especially after a well meaning
>> neighbor hit the coax bundle going to the tower with a mower.) Then start
>> saving up again for the rebuild as soon as you complete the station. (Are
>> they ever really completed?)
>>
>> Earl
>> N8SS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2015 18:37:51 -0800
>>> From: Jim Brown <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
>>> To: towertalk@contesting.com
>>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Mosley Antenna Question
>>> Message-ID: <54E3FAFF.8020406@audiosystemsgroup.com>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>>
>>> On Tue,2/17/2015 1:30 PM, Ed Sawyer wrote:
>>> I can tell you one reason to spec RG213 over LMR400 to feed your Mosley
>>> tribander, or any other tribander for that matter.
>>>
>>> There are some misconceptions here that are the result of advertising.
>>> Loss below about 500 MHz is entirely due to the resistance of the
>>> conductors at the frequency of interest. The dielectric does not
>>> contribute to loss below that frequency unless it's wet, and if it's
>>> been wet, the braid is probably degraded, increasing copper loss. :)
>>>
>>> If you really want low loss, use hard line. I'm feeding my SteppIR with
>>> 350 ft of 7/8-in. :)
>>>
>>> 73, Jim K9YC
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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