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Re: [TowerTalk] [DILLO] Re: New Proposed Texas Tower Regulation

To: Paul Gilbert <ke5zw@wt.net>, Gary J - N5BAA <qltfnish@omniglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [DILLO] Re: New Proposed Texas Tower Regulation
From: Paul Gilbert <ke5zw@wt.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2015 15:33:22 -0600
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Btw not just 2m but any ham system could be affected. This has vast trickle 
down and unintended consequences fall out issues.
Paul

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 8, 2015, at 3:30 PM, Paul Gilbert <ke5zw@wt.net> wrote:
> 
> Keep in mid that many ham repeaters are co located on towers Taft may be 
> impacted by this bill and what may happen due to costs or loading issues.
> Paul
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 8, 2015, at 3:09 PM, Gary J - N5BAA <qltfnish@omniglobal.net> wrote:
>> 
>> A number of members of our Ham Club are requesting a meeting with our State 
>> Rep (Rep Murr) tomorrow to get clarification on this subject regulation/law. 
>> We are also elevating it up to ARRL to have their legal people contact the 
>> legal people in Texas for a definitive ruling.  There needs to be a clear 
>> definition about Ham Radio Towers or guess what - many many 2M repeater 
>> towers around the state which are not located near QTH's will become 
>> headaches beyond comprehension.
>> 
>> Gary J
>> N5BAA
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Paul Gilbert
>> Sent: Sunday, February 8, 2015 10:51 AM
>> To: dillo@armadillo.org
>> Cc: L L bahr ; towertalk@contesting.com
>> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [DILLO] Re: New Proposed Texas Tower Regulation
>> 
>> As they say in the movie..... "Cabolaro"....Cowboy....
>> 
>> We have pilots in our group....
>> 
>> What are the regs covering this type of work.
>> 
>> Paul
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2/8/15 10:41 AM, Wm5l wrote:
>>> I can only speak from limited experience about crop dusters. I grew up 
>>> farming cotton, corn, wheat and milo in Hill county in high school. We used 
>>> aircraft a lot to spray the crops. I knew one pilot that was killed when 
>>> showing off, doing stunts in his duster like flying below telephone lines. 
>>> They used to laugh and brag about coming back to the strip and having 
>>> Cotton boll's hung in the landing gear. Personally I am fascinated by 
>>> aviation but some of the antics displayed by some of these pilots are 
>>> insane! Just last year while living next to the airport in ElDorado, TX I 
>>> went over and spoke to one of the guys dusting one afternoon while he was 
>>> refilling his chemicals that he was spraying. I asked him why I never heard 
>>> him on 123.0 calling approach and departure on my scanner as it is an 
>>> uncontrolled airport. He stated "we don't ever do that we just do our own 
>>> thing". It would seem to me that some common sense or basic safety 
>>> practices might eliminate all this nonsense. Jim WM5L.
>>> 
>>> Sent from Big Jim's iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 8, 2015, at 10:07, Mike Simpson - Midcom, Inc. <mike@midcom.org 
>>>> <mailto:mike@midcom.org>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Paul, I also find it somewhat  ironic and a bit amusing that the onus for 
>>>> rule implementation (and even enforcement?!?!) of this bill, should it 
>>>> become law…gets tossed right back in your very own department’s lap! 
>>>> Wonder if that will mean you personally, since you are their “go-to” comms 
>>>> guy!
>>>> 
>>>> If so, your current “Army of one” will need some serious new manpower! J
>>>> 
>>>> *From:*Paul Gilbert [mailto:ke5zw@wt.net]
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 08, 2015 9:58 AM
>>>> *To:* dillo@armadillo.org <mailto:dillo@armadillo.org>; L L bahr
>>>> *Cc:* towertalk@contesting.com <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>; 
>>>> Armadillo Mailing List
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [DILLO] Re: [TowerTalk] New Proposed Texas Tower Regulation
>>>> 
>>>> We had a 35 foot wooden telephone pole at the office in Anauhac. It use to 
>>>> have a lowband ant and a VHF DB264 on it. I had to do a FAA determination 
>>>> and then circularize it for approve at 45 feet due to the proximity to the 
>>>> local airfield.
>>>> 
>>>> Even without the antennas, the FAA wanted a "steady burning red light" on 
>>>> it.
>>>> 
>>>> We built a tower in Winnie and removed the pole.
>>>> 
>>>> However, this bill really has nothing to do with the FAA jurisdiction.
>>>> 
>>>> In fact the FAA told the crop dusters, that the towers are legal under 
>>>> their rules and nothing else could be done by the FAA
>>>> 
>>>> Interesting fact, the tower owners COULD voluntarily paint and light the 
>>>> towers.
>>>> 
>>>> Mostly what the dusters are after are the meteorology towers located in 
>>>> wind farms which are often located in crop fields.
>>>> 
>>>> Drive around West Texas, you will see them everywhere.
>>>> 
>>>> But if you paint and light voluntarily, from that day on you are required 
>>>> to do so just as if you were mandated to do so.
>>>> 
>>>> Now this bill proposes to create a state level of mandated marking and 
>>>> painting (interesting they did not include lighting, but I guess crop 
>>>> dusters do not fly at night) to towers that the FAA will not extend 
>>>> mandated marking to.
>>>> 
>>>> It seems to me this is overreach by state rule into a federal rule 
>>>> area...among other issues.
>>>> 
>>>> I also thought crop dusters had certain procedures they had to follow 
>>>> before dusting a field....like go look at it for obstructions and have 
>>>> spotters?
>>>> 
>>>> Paul,ZW
>>>> 
>>>> On 2/8/15 8:50 AM, Joe Jarrett wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>   To further this discussion, even a relatively short  tower at
>>>>   a residence could be at an illegal height.  It has to do with how
>>>>   close you are to an airport.  Do you know how close your nearest
>>>>   airport is?  I bet you don't.
>>>> 
>>>>   There is a test available on the Internet called Towair. Google
>>>>   Tow air, enter a lat and long and a tower height and the software
>>>>   will tell you if your tower is legal.
>>>> 
>>>>   For example, I ran a 40 foot tower in Lakeway about 200 yards
>>>>   back into where all the houses are.  Towair told me that such a
>>>>   tower would require registration with the FAA and might require
>>>>   lighting.  Some of the houses there are close to 40 ft high!
>>>> 
>>>>   Joe Jarrett
>>>> 
>>>>   Texas State APCO Frequency Coordinator
>>>> 
>>>>   ----- Original Message -----
>>>> 
>>>>       *From:*Mark Stennett <mailto:Mark@stennett.com>
>>>> 
>>>>       *To:*Kim Elmore <mailto:cw_de_n5op@sbcglobal.net> ; L L bahr
>>>>       <mailto:pulsarxp@embarqmail.com>
>>>> 
>>>>       *Cc:*towertalk@contesting.com <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
>>>> 
>>>>       *Sent:*Saturday, February 07, 2015 10:38 PM
>>>> 
>>>>       *Subject:*[DILLO] Re: [TowerTalk] New Proposed Texas Tower
>>>>       Regulation
>>>> 
>>>>       No tower is exempt from FAA siting requirements, regardless
>>>>       of height. You wouldn't put a 10 foot tower at the base of a
>>>>       runway, would you? All structures, permanent or temporary
>>>>       have to pass a number of FAA tests, including slope. Until
>>>>       recentl, I worked in broadcast radio doing engineering work
>>>>       for the last 30 years, 20 of those on a corporate level. We
>>>>       acquired a radio station once that had a studio microwave
>>>>       tower that was 60 foot tall. Even though it was at least 10
>>>>       feet shorter than the surrounding tree line, it was required
>>>>       to bear an Antenna Structure Registration Number and be top
>>>>       lit due to proximity to a local airport. It did not pass the
>>>>       slope test.
>>>> 
>>>>       This is a very sloppy bill. It would be far easier to
>>>>       leverage the FAA to tighten up the temporary structure rules
>>>>       than to try to make these guys tower experts. The tail is
>>>>       trying to wag the dog here.
>>>> 
>>>> https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/gisTools/gisAction.jsp?action=showNoNoticeRequiredToolForm
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>       73 de na6m
>>>> 
>>>>       -----Original Message-----
>>>>       From: Kim Elmore <cw_de_n5op@sbcglobal.net>
>>>>       <mailto:cw_de_n5op@sbcglobal.net>
>>>>       To: L L bahr <pulsarxp@embarqmail.com>
>>>>       <mailto:pulsarxp@embarqmail.com>
>>>>       Cc: "towertalk@contesting.com"
>>>>       <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com> <towertalk@contesting.com>
>>>>       <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
>>>>       Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 12:30:54 -0600
>>>>       Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] New Proposed Texas Tower Regulation
>>>> 
>>>>       This comes directly from wind observing towers for wind farm
>>>>       siting. They are all under 300' tell and do not subject to
>>>>       FAA obstruction marking requirements. These are erected
>>>>       essentially overnight and several aerial applicators have run
>>>>       into them because they have no obstruction lighting or markings.
>>>> 
>>>>       The curtiledge languages essentially exempts almost all of us.
>>>> 
>>>>       Kim N5OP
>>>> 
>>>>       "People that make music together cannot be enemies, at least
>>>>       as long as the music lasts." -- Paul Hindemith
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2015, at 11:55, "L L bahr "
>>>>       <pulsarxp@embarqmail.com <mailto:pulsarxp%40embarqmail.com>>
>>>>       wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> FYI
>>>>> Lee, w0vt
>>>> http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLookup/Text.aspx?LegSess=84R&Bill=HB946
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please read and pass this to all Amateur Radio Operators
>>>>       who have towers. This “COULD” be detrimental to all of us.
>>>>       There are things I am not certain of that I would like
>>>>       answers to or to clarify so that we could write to our
>>>>       legislature to either kill this bill or more narrowly define
>>>>       it so that it is not “ALL INCLUSIVE” in nature. It is my
>>>>       understanding that the Crop Duster Association is behind this
>>>>       because some pilot either through stupidity or an accident
>>>>       killed himself by flying into an obstruction. (I have many
>>>>       times pulled off the road and watched these guys. Several
>>>>       times I have witnessed them doing stupid reckless maneuvers)
>>>>       While I am an advocate for safety and common sense, I do not
>>>>       think everyone should “PAY” for the actions of a very small
>>>>       few. If a bill like this must exist, it should define a
>>>>       specific distance around the “WORK/FLY ZONE” and not every
>>>>       tower in the state. We should write our representatives to
>>>>       kill or modify this bill.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> SECTION 1.  Subchapter B, Chapter 21, Transportation Code
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Section 21.071 (a) 1, 2, 3 clearly define “MOST” Amateur
>>>>       Radio towers.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Section 21.071 (b) 1, 2 “APPEAR” to exempt many Amateur
>>>>       Radio Towers BUT does it? What is  the State’s legal
>>>>       definition of “curtilage”?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Section 21.071 (e) 2, “APPEARS” to exempt Amateur Radio
>>>>       Operators as “a facility licensed by the Federal
>>>>       Communications Commission or any structure with the primary
>>>>       purpose of supporting telecommunications equipment” but then
>>>>       goes on to specifically define commercial radio service. The
>>>>       “and” seems to separate the two?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Section 21.071 (f) 1, 2 “REQUIRES” notice and registration.
>>>>       You know FEES and PERMITS will soon follow.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Section 21.071 (a), (b) appears to make it retroactive
>>>>       after September 1, 2016.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Are there any lawyers among us who could speak to this and
>>>>       guide us in writing a proper request to our representatives
>>>>       regarding this?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> What are your thoughts?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Larry Lowry
>>>>> 
>>>>> Radio System Manager
>>>>> 
>>>>> (936) 538-3770 Shop
>>>>> 
>>>>> (936) 538-3711 Direct
>>>>> 
>>>>> (936) 538-3775 Fax
>>>>> 
>>>>> imagesWD5CFJ
>>>>> 
>>>>> qrcode.17489151
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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