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Re: [TowerTalk] Tower Legs in Concrete

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Tower Legs in Concrete
From: K8RI on TT <k8ri-on-towertalk@tm.net>
Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2011 14:26:33 -0400
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
On 7/7/2011 12:03 PM, Mark Ketchell wrote:

What you describe is just with dirt bases.  I don't know the actual 
conditions, but a dirt base and high humidity does not necessarily mean 
a failure.   I've seen the same things with tower bases (sections) set 
in concrete.  IOW "In general" it sounds like a poor installation.

Whether set in dirt using a proper dirt base 
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Dirt_Base.htm  or concrete those 
legs must be able to drain and not just at the base either.  I've seen 
tower legs swelled and split 3 feet above ground. In one instance the 
split was about 30 feet above ground in an Aluminum tower.   Why?  
Spider webs, which emphasizes the need to check that tower legs are 
clean WHEN they are installed. Still that is no guarantee they won't 
build webs in there after it goes up.

Another issue? A package of hardware still in the leg!  Another?  The 
base was set *IN* concrete. IOW the legs did not extend on into an 
aggregate under the concrete so they could drain.

  There are areas where bases can not drain even with the crushed rock 
or pea stone for the legs to drain in as the soil around it is 
impervious, eventually  the area under the base fills with water  and 
we're back to the same problem.  In these cases it's "J-bolts" in the 
concrete and a pier pin base for guyed towers, or the big block of 
concrete for self supporters.

Although my 45 G is constructed with a section set in concrete and lots 
of pea stone under the base to drain, I've become a firm believer in 
using the pier pin base for anything other than small, lightly loaded 
towers.

Some years back A friend had a tower go down in a severe winter storm. 
The tower was bent right over the roof of the 2 1/2 story house. The 
guys were quite typical of what you see in *most* ham towers with a 
tri-bander and 2-meter antenna on top. IOW the typical, soft, guy wire 
commonly sold at a number of outlet stores. (Inadequate). I've seen two 
men pull one of these guy lines in two which really brought home the 
poor strength of this material. Yet in the early days while new to ham 
radio I used the same 3/16 guy wire on 3 40 foot towers (with dirt 
bases) that were holding KLM monobanders for 20 and 15 with 42 foot 
booms and and a 7L Wilson 10 meter monobander that had a 38 or 39 foot 
boom. Never had a problem.

At any rate he had a hinged base set in concrete and I'd guess the tower 
had been up some where between 10 and 20 years.  It was bracketed to the 
eves with a through bolt well into the roof.  An inspection before going 
up showed one of the tower legs to have separated just above the 
concrete which made the others suspect so I beat the snot out of them.   
They were secure, BUT these were the two legs that formed the hinge.

I had two men holding the tower against the house "just-in-case" and 
went up to inspect the bracket.  It "looked" good (but bent) so I 
proceeded to saw off the part of the tower that was bent over the roof 
and hanging to the ground (snow) on the other side. Ohhhh yah! The snow 
was 3 feet deep and more in drifts. Yes, I was sawing on the part 
*above* the bracket<:-))  The tower came apart cleanly at the cut with 
the top portion sliding down the roof and off the other side.  Every 
thing seemed fine.

I turned around to talk to the guys on the ground when I had a "strange 
sensation" and instinctively reached behind me to grab the long eye bolt 
sticking out of the roof.  "It was a long reach"  I had missed a 
fracture in the clamp holding the tower to the eye bolt so I was 
standing on 30 feet of tower only held in place by two legs which just 
happened to be a hinge and the tower had started to swing out away from 
the roof.

If it hadn't been for my very good sense of balance it would have gone 
down with me on it. I don't think 3 to 5 feet of snow would have 
provided much cushion from 30 feet.  "Tuck and roll" is not an option 
when you are strapped to the tower going down.

There are quite a few ways a tower installation can fail and most of 
them go back to the way it was installed with the majority of those 
being poor drainage of the base.

I used this link earlier, but this is how I build a dirt base and a 
bracket.
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Dirt_Base.htm

ROHN used to sell dirt bases, but I think poor installation technique 
was probably the reason you don't see them listed in the catalog any more.

73

Roger (K8RI)

>           Several years ago, I went to assist with a tower removal. It was
> only about 40 feet, with nothing but an old 2 meter vertical on it, but
> owner was now too old to remove it himself. Owner said it was "well
> bracketed and surely safe". It actually WAS bracketed to the 2nd story
> eave, and to the wall about head high. There were no guys.
>
>           The problem was, it had a dirt base and with the naturally high
> humidity here in Louisiana, moisture had been condensing inside the tower
> legs for years and could not drain out. Upon inspection before climbing, we
> quickly noticed that the tower legs from the part bracketed to the house
> stopped about 2 inches above ground. Yep, there was about a 3 inch gap
> between the tower and the ground, with nothing but the house brackets
> holding the thing up. We cautiously lowered the tower until it touched
> ground and slowly let it lay over. I swore that I'd never recommend or
> participate in an installation using only a dirt base.
>
>           There's a reason why Rohn (and other manufacturers) base plates
> have weep holes, and why they recommend the layer of rock in the bottom of
> the hole when you use a starter section. I strongly agree with the LXC
> prime directive - do what the manufacturer recommends, and also W3LPL's
> suggestion of minimum yearly inspection of all your tower and associated
> hardware. Be safe, guys, the life you save might be your own!
>
> 73,
> Mark, K5ER
>
> Louisiana Contest Club
> N5LCC.com
>
>
>> On 7/6/2011 1:22 PM, Eddy Swynar wrote:
>>> Hi Again Roger,
>>>
>> ... I've gone back to using "dirt bases"
>> for small, guyed towers with relatively small antenna systems which work
>> well in our soil.  The success of dirt bases and how much tower they
>> will handle is highly dependent on soil conditions as well as the
>> "Freeze/Thaw" cycle
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Roger (K8RI)
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