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Re: [TowerTalk] tuners and power rating

To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] tuners and power rating
From: Steve Hunt <steve@karinya.net>
Date: Wed, 01 Dec 2010 15:57:05 +0000
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Paul,

I checked that page of Owen's earlier for a chart which shows the losses 
at various distances from a mismatched load; it was the epitomy of "a 
picture paints a thousand words"! Unfortunately Owen seems to have 
removed it as part of his recent site re-vamp.

73,
Steve G3TXQ

On 01/12/2010 15:30, Paul Christensen wrote:
> Steve,
>
> Perhaps it would be more accurate to state "I-squared-R loss attributed to 
> SWR," rather than "Additional loss due to SWR?"  The caveat that addresses 
> the effect seen on short lines is still needed.
>
> Not sure if this link was provided earlier, but VK1OD presents an excellent 
> analysis of a relatively recent QST article to illustrate his point.
>
> http://vk1od.net/transmissionline/VSWR/aldv.htm
>
> I think the QST article still offers an excellent explanation for beginners 
> even when he refers to the "additional loss due to SWR" graph without further 
> clarification.  By the way, there's a gross error on one of the graphs!  
> Looks like the artist didn't do a good job of lining up the X and Y axis and 
> it wasn't caught during proofs.
>
> Still, anyone who can even get to that level of understanding without the 
> caveat is more knowledge on the subject than the vast majority ops.  For 
> example, eHam is still publishing articles from authors who proclaim that 
> only single-band, resonant antennas can achieve any semblance of high 
> efficiency and that ATUs do nothing more than "make our transmitters happy."
>
> Paul, W9AC
>    ----- Original Message -----
>    From: Steve Hunt
>    To: Paul Christensen
>    Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
>    Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 9:52 AM
>    Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] tuners and power rating
>
>
>    Paul,
>
>    I'm not sure it helps to distinguish between "SWR losses" and "I-squared-R 
> losses" - at HF, all the losses are predominantly "I-squared-R losses".
>
>    It may help to picture qualitatively the current profile over a short 
> length of feedline at the load end - in all cases delivering the same power 
> to the load:
>
>    * If we have a matched load, the current is constant along the line and 
> the loss-per-unit-length will therefore also constant along the line. 
> Cumulative losses increase linearly with length.
>
>    * If we have a load with a moderately high resistive component the current 
> at the load will be lower, and therefore loss-per-unit-length will be lower. 
> But slightly back from the load the current will have increased due to the 
> standing wave pattern, and therefore the loss-per-unit-length will be higher; 
> eventually it exceeds the matched case loss-per-unit-length, and even further 
> back the cumulative losses exceed those of the matched case.
>
>    * If we now have a load with a *very* high resistive component, the 
> current at the load will be very low and the loss-per-unit-length will be 
> even lower than in the previous case. However, moving back from the load, the 
> rate of change of current with distance is higher because of the increased 
> ISWR, and it may be that we reach the "break even" point sooner, despite the 
> loss-per-unit-length adjacent to the load being lower.
>
>    Incidentally, there will be a load value which maximises the distance from 
> the load of the "break even" point.
>
>    So, all the losses are "I-squared-R losses" - it's just that the current 
> profile (and therefore the cumulative loss profile) changes if the ISWR is 
> not unity.
>
>    73,
>    Steve G3TXQ
>
>
>
>
>
>    On 01/12/2010 13:44, Paul Christensen wrote:
>      The additional loss attributed to a mismatch is still relevant once SWR
>
> becomes part of the loss.  In the 10 ft. examples we've been using, that
> occurs when the line get to roughly 40 degrees in length.  When we approach
> 1/4 wave, loss due to SWR becomes equal in loss to I-squared-R loss.  I
> think that's was one of Steve's points in that the additional loss
> attributed to SWR needs some clarification in the footnotes o be completely
> accurate.
>
> Paul, W9AC
>
>
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