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[TowerTalk] Newbee concrete rebar questions

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Subject: [TowerTalk] Newbee concrete rebar questions
From: "Jim Thomson" <jim.thom@telus.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 05:52:42 -0700
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Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:56:56 -0700
From: David Gilbert <xdavid@cis-broadband.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Newbee concrete rebar questions


Personally, I think it is highly unlikely that significant corrosion 
would travel down the path of a thin wire.  It certainly isn't a 
moisture issue, since moisture readily penetrates concrete anyway.

## I wouldn't bet on it any time soon.  On this last cage I had built, the 
re-bar guys installed short 3' long bar's , 2  per corner..right at the top tie,
to stop it from wobbling abt. The ends of the  bars were touching the  clay 
sidewalls. 
The PE went nut's when he saw that.   I explained to him that the 8 x temp bars 
were being removed, when the concrete was 95%   to the top. 

##  We have a condo across town here, that has huge amounts of it's  re-bar
literally  disintegrated..starting from the very bottom.  Dunno if they forgot 
to install
dobe blocks  under them or not.    Some how, vast amounts of water have managed 
to get beneath the foundation, and started eating the re-bar.  It's now a maze 
of hollow tunnels.   Those giant concrete support columns and side walls in the 
underground parking lot are now seriously  compromised.   They X-rayed it all,
and also took some of it apart.  1st Time it has ever happened.  

##  Ever pounded/jack hammered  galvanized  grnd rods into clay/soil ? 
They will disintegrate in 10 years.  A buddy  [ who was in a rental house] 
installed
the bottom section of a 50' galvanized  guyed tower, directly  into  a 2'  deep 
hole, with no concrete
at all.. then used a house bracket, plus guy wires.    When he removed the  
bottom section from 
the grnd, 11 years later, 65%  of it  had vanished !    Whole sections of 
bracing were gone, plus
the tower legs had huge chunks missing. 

##  rebar is cheap.  Just use  some vertical rebar, but use dobe blocks under  
them.  They are just
small concrete blocks with a slot running down the top side.  The rebar sits in 
the slot, and won't budge.
There are abt 6 x different ways to tie rebar with the wire. [ on line]  Take a 
piece of wire, 24" long, and fold it in 
1/2....  like a hairpin.    That's what's  used to tie the bars.   The rebar 
place also has the blocks..plus loads of wire. 

##  concrete has loads of compressive strength.. but hardly any tensile [ 
stretching] strength... hence
the use of vertical rebars.   The horizontal grid of bars stops the top from 
blowing out...and re-enforces
the legs embedded in the concrete..since they are a  distance from the  re-bar 
ties. [ Horz hoops] 

## forget the prime directive.  Who ever designed the cage, using  2 x  
horizontal grids of bars
in parallel... and no vertical bars  was asleep at the switch.  It also appears 
they did not use
horizontal   'ties' either.  The ties are just  square hoops, made from one 
continuous piece of re-bar,
with an overlap in the corner.  Their is usually ties every 6-12", starting at 
the top.   The ties are 
supported by the  vertical rebars.    The bottom/top  grid of bars goes in dead 
last.   Vertical bars
go inside the ties.   It's like they gave you step 3..and missed steps 1+2. 

## All the re-bar at the very top should be down at least 3"..and pref 4-5".   
The top surface is what's exposed
to the rain.   If it's only embedded 1- 1.5"   it won't last.    You want a min 
of 3"  on all sides and 2-3"  on the bottom.    

later... Jim   VE7RF  



  It's 
the PH of the concrete that inhibits corrosion of the embedded rebar 
even though it ALWAYS gets "wet" unless you live in Antarctica.  
Corrosion only travels along a wire or rod if it is large enough that 
the PH of the concrete is physically buffered from the iron core.  I 
don't think that is likely with a thin wire.

If you're worried about it, though, use something like copper wire or 
stainless steel wire.  There may be some dissimilar metal corrosion 
where the wire meets the rebar, but as soon as the junction rots away 
the corrosion would stop as well.

Or just use something strong and non-metallic like nylon twine.  As I 
said, there's no point in worrying about a path for moisture because of 
the porosity of the concrete, and you're going to get microcracks in the 
concrete anyway.

73,
Dave   AB7E


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