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Re: [TowerTalk] Fwd: Heights Towers Aluminum??

To: "W5LT" <W5LT@verizon.net>, <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Fwd: Heights Towers Aluminum??
From: "WA3GIN" <wa3gin@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 21:31:12 -0400
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Just like cars, never buy one built on a Monday, Tuesday after Monday Night 
Football or Friday or other days that follow holiday weekends < ;-)   UR 
experience may vary!

Have Fun,
wa3gin

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "W5LT" <W5LT@verizon.net>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 8:55 PM
Subject: [TowerTalk] Fwd: Heights Towers Aluminum??


> The lower strength of welded aluminum is recognized in the Aluminum
> Association Specifications standard, and the new Heights series used the
> lower value in the design and analysis of the tower sections. That 
> standard
> makes no mention of 'baking' a weld to regain the lost strength.
> Keep in mind that the 'allowable' strength of any material is the limit
> value used in any design. It is arrived at by discounting, with a safety
> factor for the material in question, the minimum specified limits of the
> yield & ultimate stress for the various types of stress (tensile, shear, &
> bearing). Generally the discounted yield strength is the value used for
> design purposes.  Thus the design has an inherent 'safety factor against
> failure, the main purpose of which is to have some margin against
> imperfections in the manufacturing process or other variables.
> Of course, if the welding is defective, all bets are off.
> I do know that Heights is using the TIG welding process in the new series,
> but that still leaves operator skill & technique as a significant 
> variable.
> I do not know the methods used to manufacture the 'old' series.
>
> Bob, W5LT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David H Craig [mailto:n3db@radix.net]
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 1:16 PM
> To: HansLG@aol.com; towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Fwd: Heights Towers Aluminum??
>
>    I have no first-hand knowledge of these towers, but I am currently
> working with an experienced aluminum welder (military aircraft) on a tower
> project.  Presuming arguendo this is not a "buttering" problem (cold weld
> with no penetration) it sounds as if the completed units are not
> heat-treated to bring them back to the original tensile strength.
>    An example- I asked my welder friend about the practicability of 
> welding
>
> a center-sleeve of 1 1/2" OD 1/4" wall aluminim tube into a 2" OD 1/4" 
> wall
> tube so I could have a travel mast with two 8 foot sections that would 
> silde
>
> together & bolt on just one side.  He told me the tube stength would be
> compromised unless the welded portion was "baked" at the appropriate temp
> for 24-36 hours, and that in his shop (a gov't facility with top of the 
> line
>
> gear) the "oven" can only fit 3ft long objects.  To wit:  "In some
> applications it is better to just use hardware and this is one of them".
>
>    Why do I get the impression that the critical welded areas of these
> towers are not re-heat-treated?
>
>    N3DB
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <HansLG@aol.com>
> To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 1:33 PM
> Subject: [TowerTalk] Fwd: Heights Towers Aluminum??
>
>
>>I am glad to get this information. The Height tower I have in my yard just
>> now is old. I noticed that some of the weld or the Z have opened and was
>> going
>> to fix that before I put the tower up. Now I may get all the welds
>> inspected
>> before I put it up. I looked at the welds before and wondered if they 
>> were
>> OK,  but as I am not an expert I thought they were OK. The welds that
>> brook were
>> under high tention after the Z itself bent at these places.
>>
>> Hans N2JFS
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________
>> From: k8isk@comcast.net
>> To: towertalk@contesting.com
>> Sent: 8/15/2008  2:00:39 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time
>> Subj: Re: [TowerTalk] Heights Towers  Aluminum??
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As being the lucky person to clean up the  mess left by Owen's tower
>> failures, I can tell you first hand that all antenna  weights, wind load
>> specs,
>> lengths, etc. were passed on to Heights before Owen  put them up, anyone
>> who knows
>> Owen knows he goes by the book and documents!!  He was told that his
>> loading
>> was within spec.
>>
>> I am no expert on  aluminum welding but I do a fair amount about steel
>> welding and what I have  seen is a failure of welds on his towers.
>> Normally, a weld
>> is stronger than  the surrounding material. If there is a failure, the
>> weld is
>> intact but metal  is ripped away around the weld. A sign of a good weld 
>> is
>
>> a
>> slight cutting away  of material right at the weld. This is the point
>> where
>> the material starts to  melt and becomes one with the welding rod
>> material. Some
>> of the failed welds  on his HF tower that came over first look like they
>> just
>> poped off, like a  cold solder joint.
>>
>> His second failure, just a couple of weeks ago,  occured at 36 mph as
>> measured by his Davis wx station and verified by the  local airport which
>> reported
>> only a 31 mph gust. The top section failed right  where it went inside 
>> the
>
>> next
>> section. A leg buckeled in and it was all down  hill from there. Once
>> again,
>> as the leg that was receiving all the downward  pressure (opposite the
>> legs in
>> the wind) pushed inward and the Z bracing which  is supposed to keep it
>> from
>> collasping, didn't. I did not see the Z bracing  buckle, the welds just
>> broke.
>>
>> All the discussions thus far seems to be  centered around just self
>> supporting foldovers, not crank ups as Owen's was.  I'm sure there is a
>> difference
>> between the way the load is distributed down  the tower.
>> At K8GP, we use a lot of Univeral self-supporting towers that  pivot up
>> from
>> atop our school buses. Our towers take a lot of abuse from being
>> overloaded
>> (it's only 5 days twice a year!) and riding around on bumpy roads  on top
>> of
>> school buses. Our towers have survived 80+ mph winds and when we  have a
>> break,
>> it's usually a fatigued Z brace and NOT at a weld and we only go  up 30 
>> to
>
>> 40
>> feet.
>>
>> I'm not passing judgement on Heights towers or  aluminum towers in
>> general,
>> just adding to the discussion of what I saw. For  most of us, a tower is 
>> a
>> pretty good size investment in time and money, and  since my tired, old,
>> fat butt
>> is climbing up, I want nice heavy, thick,  galvanized STEEL under me!
>>
>> Terry
>>
>> -------------- Original message  -------------- 
>> From: <donovanf@starpower.net>
>>
>>> Hi Dick,
>>>
>>> Unlike K3CB's recent experiences with the catastrophic  failure ofboth 
>>> of
>> his
>>> Heights crank-up towers (one in dead calm  weather and the other in 
>>> light
>> 30 MPH
>>> winds), the collapse of the  Heights tilt-over tower was the direct
>>> result
>> of an
>>> inexperienced  tower owner significantly exceeding the maximum dead
>>> weight
>>>  specification.
>>>
>>> I suspect he isn't alone in failing to  appreciate the importance of not
>>> exceeding the dead weight  specification for tilt-over towers.
>>>
>>> 73
>>> Frank
>>> W3LPL
>>>
>>> ---- Original message ---- 
>>> >Date:  Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:40:33 -0600
>>> >From: "Dick Williams"
>>>  >Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Heights Towers Aluminum??
>>> >To:
>>> >
>>> >I have seen several interesting comments on the  reflector concerning
>> Heights
>>> >Alum towers; and in fact, I posted a  couple myself.
>>> >
>>> >As I mentioned in a previous post, I  have three of them and they all
>>> >tilt
>>> >over in the center (80 ft  towers with the fold over at the 40 ft
>>> >level).
>>> >
>>>  >Obviously, weight is a concern, you can't put 400 lbs of antenna and
>>> >acessories on the top and expect it to work.
>>> >Alum  masts certainly help; in fact I have a nice 20 ft, 1/2 inch wall
>>> >one
>>>  >sitting on the ground that I am not using right now (150 bucks picked
>> up).
>>> >
>>> >As far as size, I have not found that to be a  problem (just weight). I
>>> >put the antenna together (or take it  down to work on with the boom
>> parallel
>>> >to the ground (elements  vertical). If the elements are too long, I 
>>> >just
>>> >start removing  element sections as I lower it down until the boom is
>>> >low
>>> >enough  to work on.
>>> >
>>> >It is too bad that Glenn Martin  Engineering does not produce the
>>> >Voyager
>> any
>>> >more. It is the  similiar to the Hazer except it is on a external track
>>> >on
>>> >the  side of the tower. I have one on a 120 ft Rohn tower. Have a Force
>>> >12
>>>  >Mag 620/340N on it with a M2 R2800 rotor. Works great; brings the
>>> antenna
>>
>>> >right down to the ground ready to be worked on when needed. And  all it
>>> >takes is a 1/2 inch electric drill to raise and lower it.
>>> >
>>> >All said and done, I like the Heights towers and  the Voyager system 
>>> >for
>>> >"ground level" antenna work.
>>> >
>>> >Dick K8ZTT
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>  >_______________________________________________
>>> >
>>>  >
>>> >
>>>  >_______________________________________________
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>>> >TowerTalk@contesting.com
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your
>> budget?
>> Read reviews on AOL Autos.
>>
> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00
> 030000000007
>>  )
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>>
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>>
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