On regards to the amount of cement to use I have purchased US tower TX 438
crank up self supporting 38 foot,the manual that came with it spec was 3x3x5.
The new spec from US tower is 5x5x6 or 5 I cant remember which.I am going with
4x4x5 I think that this is plenty. N1KGP 73
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 54, Issue 107 (WarrenWolff@aol.com)
2. Re: [Tower Talk] Was something else - Now Radian specs vs.
Peoria specs ?? (Jim Lux)
3. Re: [Tower Talk] Was something else - Now Radian specs vs.
Peoria specs ?? (Dick, W1KSZ)
4. Re: Redi-mix (john.brewer@us.schneider-electric.com)
5. Re: [Tower Talk] Was something else - Now Radian specsvs.
Peoria specs ?? (Roger (K8RI))
6. Tower ACCIDENT (Richard Joey Fiero II W5TFW)
7. Re: Tower ACCIDENT (Dan Cisson)
8. Re: Tower ACCIDENT (Chet Moore)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:09:33 EDT
From: WarrenWolff@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 54, Issue 107
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Twenty Seven Cubic feet = One (1) Cubic Yard.
Warren; W7WY
************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:18:29 -0700
From: Jim Lux
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [Tower Talk] Was something else - Now Radian
specs vs. Peoria specs ??
To: "Clint Talmadge" ,
Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.2.20070626151313.02dbc198@mail.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
At 12:19 PM 6/26/2007, Clint Talmadge wrote:
>Bob, AD5VJ asked a question about a concrete base for a Rohn tower.
>
>When Bob, NA6T posted this reply I thought the amount of concrete
>sounded a bit high. I checked the Radian site and sure enough that
>is what is listed. So I drug out my old Peoria Rohn Catalog, circa
>1983 and researched base dimensions. Peoria Rohn specs call for a 2'
>X 2' by 4' deep hole for the tower that Bob, AD5VJ is installing. It
>calls for guy anchors of 2' X 2' by 1' deep.
>
>Which raises the question: Did Radian re-engineer the base
>dimensions or did the fear of litigation cause Radian to up the numbers?
Purely speculation, but a lot has changed in the last 25 years,
including how windspeeds are specified (or, more properly, what load
corresponds to what rated speed), perhaps some assumptions about the
bearing capacity of soil, perhaps standard construction practices have changed?
One likes to hope that folks aren't motivated by "fear of litigation"
but, rather, a desire to "do the job right", and if a reanalysis
shows you need different dimensions, then so be it. I sort of doubt
they just blindly increased the size in hopes that it would be "safer".
>I've installed two towers for myself, both Rohn 25G, both in the 30'
>to 40' range ( I use a full section for the base) and both were
>planted in 2' X 2' X 4' holes. Neither came down (yet).
That's not surprising on a sample of 2. The footing design would
generally not be designed to fail at 1 mi/hr over the limit, but
would include some margin for things like variations in soil,
variations in material properties, etc. Failure is a probability
thing, not a "exceed the limit and total destruction is certain" sort of thing.
Jim, W6RMK
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:51:23 -0400
From: "Dick, W1KSZ"
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [Tower Talk] Was something else - Now Radian
specs vs. Peoria specs ??
To: Jim Lux
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com, Clint Talmadge
Message-ID: <4681986B.5020601@earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
I think they changed the windload from 75 mph to 90 mph.
73, Dick, W1KSZ
Jim Lux wrote:
> At 12:19 PM 6/26/2007, Clint Talmadge wrote:
>> Bob, AD5VJ asked a question about a concrete base for a Rohn tower.
>>
>> When Bob, NA6T posted this reply I thought the amount of concrete
>> sounded a bit high. I checked the Radian site and sure enough that
>> is what is listed. So I drug out my old Peoria Rohn Catalog, circa
>> 1983 and researched base dimensions. Peoria Rohn specs call for a 2'
>> X 2' by 4' deep hole for the tower that Bob, AD5VJ is installing. It
>> calls for guy anchors of 2' X 2' by 1' deep.
>>
>> Which raises the question: Did Radian re-engineer the base
>> dimensions or did the fear of litigation cause Radian to up the numbers?
>
> Purely speculation, but a lot has changed in the last 25 years,
> including how windspeeds are specified (or, more properly, what load
> corresponds to what rated speed), perhaps some assumptions about the
> bearing capacity of soil, perhaps standard construction practices have
> changed?
>
> One likes to hope that folks aren't motivated by "fear of litigation"
> but, rather, a desire to "do the job right", and if a reanalysis
> shows you need different dimensions, then so be it. I sort of doubt
> they just blindly increased the size in hopes that it would be "safer".
>
>
>> I've installed two towers for myself, both Rohn 25G, both in the 30'
>> to 40' range ( I use a full section for the base) and both were
>> planted in 2' X 2' X 4' holes. Neither came down (yet).
>
> That's not surprising on a sample of 2. The footing design would
> generally not be designed to fail at 1 mi/hr over the limit, but
> would include some margin for things like variations in soil,
> variations in material properties, etc. Failure is a probability
> thing, not a "exceed the limit and total destruction is certain" sort of
> thing.
>
> Jim, W6RMK
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
--
73, Dick, W1KSZ
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:52:24 -0400
From: john.brewer@us.schneider-electric.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Redi-mix
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
I used ~ 35 80 lb sacks in my guyed 40' tower (which is supporting a A4S w/40M
add-on, and a
Hazer). I mixed it in a small 2 bag mixer, and had no difficulty keeping the
pour constant
from one set of bags to the next. You need to keep moving though!
Without question, it was hard work, but I ended up with a very strong base,
which is
undoubtedly overkill for a guyed tower, but did follow Rohns recommendation (2'
diameter round
hole, 4' deep as I recall...mine ended up being 5' deep)
Guyed it at 40' with 1/4" EHS as Rohn specifies, absolutely no problem .... a
very very stable
base
John K5MO
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:17:31 -0400
From: "Roger (K8RI)"
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [Tower Talk] Was something else - Now Radian
specsvs. Peoria specs ??
To: "Dick, W1KSZ" , "Jim Lux"
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com, Clint Talmadge
Message-ID: <001301c7b848$30e1f7e0$6400a8c0@shop32>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
If you have good soil, good guy anchors, and zoning isn't a problem a dirt
base works just fine with a 40 foot tower. ROHN even used to make one. As an
educated guess, I'd say that only about one out of ten towers around here of
60 feet or less has any concrete in the base. Mine has several yards while
the guy anchors are 4 X 4 X 5' deep.
73
Roger (K8RI)
>I think they changed the windload from 75 mph to 90 mph.
>
> 73, Dick, W1KSZ
>
> Jim Lux wrote:
>> At 12:19 PM 6/26/2007, Clint Talmadge wrote:
>>> Bob, AD5VJ asked a question about a concrete base for a Rohn tower.
>>>
>>> When Bob, NA6T posted this reply I thought the amount of concrete
>>> sounded a bit high. I checked the Radian site and sure enough that
>>> is what is listed. So I drug out my old Peoria Rohn Catalog, circa
>>> 1983 and researched base dimensions. Peoria Rohn specs call for a 2'
>>> X 2' by 4' deep hole for the tower that Bob, AD5VJ is installing. It
>>> calls for guy anchors of 2' X 2' by 1' deep.
>>>
>>> Which raises the question: Did Radian re-engineer the base
>>> dimensions or did the fear of litigation cause Radian to up the numbers?
>>
>> Purely speculation, but a lot has changed in the last 25 years,
>> including how windspeeds are specified (or, more properly, what load
>> corresponds to what rated speed), perhaps some assumptions about the
>> bearing capacity of soil, perhaps standard construction practices have
>> changed?
>>
>> One likes to hope that folks aren't motivated by "fear of litigation"
>> but, rather, a desire to "do the job right", and if a reanalysis
>> shows you need different dimensions, then so be it. I sort of doubt
>> they just blindly increased the size in hopes that it would be "safer".
>>
>>
>>> I've installed two towers for myself, both Rohn 25G, both in the 30'
>>> to 40' range ( I use a full section for the base) and both were
>>> planted in 2' X 2' X 4' holes. Neither came down (yet).
>>
>> That's not surprising on a sample of 2. The footing design would
>> generally not be designed to fail at 1 mi/hr over the limit, but
>> would include some margin for things like variations in soil,
>> variations in material properties, etc. Failure is a probability
>> thing, not a "exceed the limit and total destruction is certain" sort of
>> thing.
>>
>> Jim, W6RMK
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> TowerTalk mailing list
>> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>>
>
> --
> 73, Dick, W1KSZ
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:18:57 -0500
From: "Richard Joey Fiero II W5TFW"
Subject: [TowerTalk] Tower ACCIDENT
To:
Message-ID: <007001c7b848$5ee8a710$6701a8c0@genrobertelee>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
to All;
A Fellow ham asked me to drop by here and tell you all my story, you see I
am in a wheel chair,
because I was on a tower that collapsed,
My Names Joey, My Call is W5TFW, I live just outside of Baton Rouge
Louisiana, On April 1st
I was disassembling a 100' tower with a mosley tri bander and a 2 meter
Yagi, etc,....
The owner whos is now a silent key, told me the tower was in fine shape, 3
sets of guy wires no rust,
seemed strong enough to me upon inspection, so up I went, I first removed
the antennas, rotor, top section, then 6 10' sections, now at 40' the tower
legs just BROKE, it snaped the guy wires and down I came, I broke my left
ankle, My Pelvis, my Back, my Ribs, and I almost bleed to death,
I hope this helps you all not to make the mistakes I made.
ps: the OWNER of the tower, Came to the hospital, He had a Heart attack and
died.
Regards, Joey
Richard Joey Fiero II
W5TFW EM-40
QSL Manager USS KIDD W5KID
Director 6 Club www.6mt.com
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:07:08 -0400
From: "Dan Cisson"
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Tower ACCIDENT
To: "Richard Joey Fiero II W5TFW" ,
Message-ID: <00df01c7b84f$1a2332b0$01fea8c0@danbklmua4nvzm>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Joey,, I rarely make a reply to a post,, but this got my attention...And I
wanted to reply to the reflector for it could very well help others...
I am a tower professional, I do it for a living..I do a fair amount for
hams, and I am a ham myself...
I found a couple of things you said that did not add up correctly, obviously
it happened,, but seems it should not have. You said you had the tower down
to the 40 ft. level...By the way, is the tower Rohn 25??
When the tower was fully up with the antennas and all the guy cables, that
tower was at maximum load. Then you added your body weight, your gear to
take the tower down, and all the movement that comes with getting a
tri-bander down from 100 ft. That is theoretically when the tower shoud have
collapsed. The only way I could see any different, is the bottom set of
wires created some pivot at the failure point. But if that tower was up with
proper guy cables, with a minimum of 3/16 EHS, 3990 lb break strength, the
guy should have never broke. I am sure sorry of your accident, I hope what I
am describing, and what happened to you can foil another tower tragedy...I
sure feel it should not have happened....Best Wishes,, Good Luck to you,,
Dan Cisson N4GNR
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Joey Fiero II W5TFW"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 7:18 PM
Subject: [TowerTalk] Tower ACCIDENT
> to All;
>
> A Fellow ham asked me to drop by here and tell you all my story, you see I
> am in a wheel chair,
> because I was on a tower that collapsed,
>
> My Names Joey, My Call is W5TFW, I live just outside of Baton Rouge
> Louisiana, On April 1st
> I was disassembling a 100' tower with a mosley tri bander and a 2 meter
> Yagi, etc,....
> The owner whos is now a silent key, told me the tower was in fine shape,
> 3
> sets of guy wires no rust,
> seemed strong enough to me upon inspection, so up I went, I first removed
> the antennas, rotor, top section, then 6 10' sections, now at 40' the
> tower
> legs just BROKE, it snaped the guy wires and down I came, I broke my left
> ankle, My Pelvis, my Back, my Ribs, and I almost bleed to death,
>
> I hope this helps you all not to make the mistakes I made.
>
> ps: the OWNER of the tower, Came to the hospital, He had a Heart attack
> and
> died.
>
>
>
> Regards, Joey
> Richard Joey Fiero II
> W5TFW EM-40
> QSL Manager USS KIDD W5KID
> Director 6 Club www.6mt.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.8/869 - Release Date: 6/25/2007
> 5:32 PM
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 20:58:37 -0400
From: "Chet Moore"
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Tower ACCIDENT
To: "Richard Joey Fiero II W5TFW" ,
Message-ID: <03e501c7b856$4b7e86f0$6800a8c0@OFFICE>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Yo Joey,
I don't know that I see a lot of mistakes or things that I haven't already
done? . Could you expand a bit on just what were the mistakes you made? I
guess it would have been nice to know the age and make of the tower, the
size of the guy wires, were the guy wires attached to the legs or to a
guying fixture? I typically have a fall arrest lanyard plus another belt
around the tower, usually clipped off on different rungs. That doesn't help
much if you are attached twice to the same section and that section
collapses . Now that you think back on it, did any of the 6 sections you
successfully got down have a lot of rust where they were joined together?
Did the tower collapse in the middle of the section?
A couple of weeks ago the club here went out to take down a 90 footer at
K1KO. N4BAA who was the climber after looking it over "condemned" the
tower and said he wasn't climbing it (25G). The end result was that the
legs were cut at the bottom and the tower was dropped and fell right on the
chosen line. After reading this, I am sure the right choice was made.
I hope you make a speedy recovery.
73
Chet N4FX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Joey Fiero II W5TFW"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2007 7:18 PM
Subject: [TowerTalk] Tower ACCIDENT
> to All;
>
> A Fellow ham asked me to drop by here and tell you all my story, you see I
> am in a wheel chair,
> because I was on a tower that collapsed,
>
> My Names Joey, My Call is W5TFW, I live just outside of Baton Rouge
> Louisiana, On April 1st
> I was disassembling a 100' tower with a mosley tri bander and a 2 meter
> Yagi, etc,....
> The owner whos is now a silent key, told me the tower was in fine shape,
> 3
> sets of guy wires no rust,
> seemed strong enough to me upon inspection, so up I went, I first removed
> the antennas, rotor, top section, then 6 10' sections, now at 40' the
> tower
> legs just BROKE, it snaped the guy wires and down I came, I broke my left
> ankle, My Pelvis, my Back, my Ribs, and I almost bleed to death,
>
> I hope this helps you all not to make the mistakes I made.
>
> ps: the OWNER of the tower, Came to the hospital, He had a Heart attack
> and
> died.
>
>
>
> Regards, Joey
> Richard Joey Fiero II
> W5TFW EM-40
> QSL Manager USS KIDD W5KID
> Director 6 Club www.6mt.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
------------------------------
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TowerTalk mailing list
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http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 54, Issue 108
******************************************
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