I have grease but I am in Seattle doing a computer training session. I'll
be back in the office on Saturday late in the day. I can ship to you Monday
1.31. I apologize.
Original Message:
-----------------
From: towertalk-request@contesting.com
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 21:39:06 -0500 (EST)
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 25, Issue 149
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: stacking xm240 cushcraft (David Hachadorian)
2. RE: Installing Copper Strap In Shack (James C. Hall, M.D.)
3. Re: PL-259 Soldering temperature (W3YY)
4. Re: Installing Copper Strap In Shack (Gary Schafer)
5. Re: ampacity, overcurrent protection, etc. (Jim Lux)
6. RE: PL-259 Soldering temperature (Keith Dutson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 16:51:02 -0700
From: "David Hachadorian" <K6LL@adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] stacking xm240 cushcraft
To: "Towertalk Reflector" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <00f101c50339$62bd75d0$0202a8c0@cyberpower>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
----- Original Message -----
From: "jorge rios" <jorgerios18@hotmail.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:48 PM
Subject: [TowerTalk] stacking xm240 cushcraft
hi im jorge xe2www from mexico ,im looking for some
help about the stacking subjet.
i have a xm240 in the top of my 120feet tower and i
have another one i its box but im thinking to install
it on the tower below the first one that i have on the
top ,i know that my tower doesnt turn but 85% of the
times i work pointing to north east i have the wxob
stack mach from array solutions it gives me the option
to match 3 antennas or two or just one ,i would like
to know if someone here can give me more information i
want to insatll the second antenna below the other
(looking for the correct distance betwen the two of
them) i will use it only when i have my antenna
pointing to the north east ans if a need to turn my
upper antenna to another direction i will work only
with the one of the bottom,anyway im only looking for
comenatries,because i want to experiment with them
because i have the equipment lying arround in my
house,thanks for your comentaries
-------------------------------
That 120' antenna is at a perfect height for your
location, especially at this part of the sunspot cycle.
I'd put the second one at about 80'. I think if you put
it any lower, you will be unhappy with it when your
high antenna is pointed in another direction. 40'
separation between the two antennas should give you a
dB or two of stacking gain when they are fed in phase.
10 minutes of analysis with the program YT is behind my
advice. Perhaps someone will put more effort into a
better model.
Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
Yuma, AZ
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:31:09 -0600
From: "James C. Hall, M.D." <nwtcc@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [TowerTalk] Installing Copper Strap In Shack
To: <keith@dutson.net>, "'TowerTalk'" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <E1Ctb5i-0003Vr-00@pop-a065d19.pas.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Keith:
In my installation (which is above my garage), I have a bus bar (Cu) under
the desk. I have more than one radio, but with my main setup, I have found
that using the ground point on my high power tuner as a 'secondary' SPG,
then coming down to the bus bar, works for me. I then use 1.5" copper strap
from the bus going down a 3" PVC pipe from the floor of the shack to an old
breaker box housing my SPG panel. I attach the copper strap to the top of
the panel and then attach more copper strap from the bottom of the SPG to
the 'first' ground rod. On the panel, I have mounted all my ICE (or
Polyphaser) lightning protectors. In the shack, I constructed a baseboard
box from the border of my operating desk to over the 3" PVC opening. This is
where all my coax, control lines, and ground strap are funneled. It is easy
to simply unscrew the top of the baseboard box to access the lines (add new
ones !).
Oh, BTW, I've been hamming for over 30 years, and I've used braid off of
RG-8-like cable for years to connect equipment grounds to the bus (indoors)
without any difficulty.
If you need further visualization of this, I could be talked into sending
you a picture of the setup. :)
73, Jamie
WB4YDL
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Keith Dutson
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 4:27 PM
To: 'TowerTalk'
Subject: [TowerTalk] Installing Copper Strap In Shack
A load of Cu strap just arrived at the house, rolls of 3 in and 1.5 in. The
edge of the 3 in roll is somewhat battered and will need to be straightened.
I plan to use a piece of wood and a hammer to do this while it is still
rolled up. Then the strap will be cut to length and installed from the
station buss bar to the SPG, replacing the existing braid.
Any tips on cleaning/coating the copper to make and keep it nice and bright?
I don't want it to turn color over time if at all possible. Also, the strap
runs across a space between the desk and wall that is accessed infrequently.
When access is required, would you just unbolt the strap, or is there a
convenient way to make a quick disconnect? TIA
Keith NM5G
_______________________________________________
See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any
questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 00:45:34 -0000
From: "W3YY" <w3yy@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] PL-259 Soldering temperature
To: "TowerTalk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <006001c50340$5b8face0$6601a8c0@w3yy>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
To All -
I've used a Weller Catalog No. WPA2 "Pyropen" successfully for years. I
don't solder outside unless absolutely necessary, but this iron has done
the
job for me on PL-259's and smaller jobs. It's a wonderful outdoor
soldering
tool.
73, Bob - W3YY
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Dutson" <kjdutson@earthlink.net>
To: "TowerTalk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: [TowerTalk] PL-259 Soldering temperature
I took a Weller propane iron kit on the VP8WWW DXpedition. I don't remember
the model number but it was about $50 from the 'net and came with a variety
of tips/attachments. It performed quite well although we did not try it on
any PL259 connectors. The iron has a heat range controlled by a valve and
we had it set to about half way. I think it would work on a PL259 but would
be quite difficult in windy conditions.
Keith NM5G/VP8DXL
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Red
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 10:03 PM
To: TowerTalk
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] PL-259 Soldering temperature
Hi, Gang;
Any experience or advise on using a propane heated soldering tip for
soldering the PL-259? I'm referring to the rather heavy tips, 1/4 or 3/8"
diameter. They can be custom made for extra mass and to mate the job. They
tend to get too hot and burn the flux if the propane is turned on full.
Should they be filed to fit the curve of the connector or to fit into the
hole?
73 de WOØW
_______________________________________________
See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any
questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
_______________________________________________
See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any
questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 19:48:57 -0500
From: Gary Schafer <garyschafer@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Installing Copper Strap In Shack
To: keith@dutson.net
Cc: 'TowerTalk' <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <41F6E8F9.5010608@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Keith Dutson wrote:
> A load of Cu strap just arrived at the house, rolls of 3 in and 1.5 in.
The
> edge of the 3 in roll is somewhat battered and will need to be
straightened.
> I plan to use a piece of wood and a hammer to do this while it is still
> rolled up. Then the strap will be cut to length and installed from the
> station buss bar to the SPG, replacing the existing braid.
>
> Any tips on cleaning/coating the copper to make and keep it nice and
bright?
> I don't want it to turn color over time if at all possible. Also, the
strap
> runs across a space between the desk and wall that is accessed
infrequently.
> When access is required, would you just unbolt the strap, or is there a
> convenient way to make a quick disconnect? TIA
>
> Keith NM5G
Scotch pads work well for cleaning.
Don't forget to use a copper hammer when pounding on the strap. Don't
want to contaminate it with any iron.
An alligator clip will work for a quick disconnect. :>)
73
Gary K4FMX
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 18:31:04 -0800
From: "Jim Lux" <jimlux@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] ampacity, overcurrent protection, etc.
To: <garyschafer@comcast.net>
Cc: towertalk <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <001201c5034f$16143550$32a8a8c0@LAPTOP152422>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Schafer" <garyschafer@comcast.net>
To: "Jim Lux" <jimlux@earthlink.net>
Cc: "towertalk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 3:17 PM
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] ampacity, overcurrent protection, etc.
> Hi Jim,
> I have to take issue with you on some of this:
> >
> > The rules in the NEC for conductor sizing and overcurrent protection are
> > sort of complex, and one does not necessarily depend on the other. For
> > code fiends, 240-3 has the OCP rules. Once you get away from
> > conventional residential construction, the rules allow all sorts of
> > things, assuming there's a rational basis for what you want to do.
>
> One does depend on the other.
Getting into a parsing thing here... OCP and conductor sizing both depend on
the load, but one does not necessarily depend on the other.
>There is sometimes more leeway. You can
> sometimes run more current on a given conductor size than normal but you
> can still can not way undersize a breaker on a given size wire.
Sure you can.. I can put a 1 Amp breaker on a 4/0 wire.. but I think you
meant the other way around.. running a lot of current through a small wire.
You can do that, but there's a whole lot of "exceptions" involved.
>
>
> >
> > Overcurrent Protection is based on:
> > 1) Expected size and type of load (in general, 125% of continuous+100%
> > of noncontinuous load)
> > 2) Type of wiring and its ampacity
>
> Over current protection based on the load size still doesn't negate the
> proper wire size for the load and breaker.
Proper wire size for load and installation requirements, I'll buy.
The breaker protects the wire, but, wire size doesn't determine breaker as a
one for one relation, and vice versa..
> > More specifically: "
> > Overcurrent protection for conductors and equipment is provided to open
> > the circuit if the current reaches a value that will cause an excessive
> > or dangerous temperature in conductors or conductor insulation.
> > "
>
> Over current protection must in addition be small enough to trip the
> breaker before the wire burns open.
Presumably, wire burning open is an "excessive temperature", but I hope you
or I never design a system where the expected operating point for the copper
conductor is 1000C...
Realistically, the breaker doesn't protect the wire, it protects the stuff
around the wire. What protects the wire is the interrupting capability of
the breaker in a very high current fault.
>
> >
> > So, if you can make a case that your AWG 20 wire won't be excessively or
> > dangerously heated by that 400 service, you can protect it accordingly.
> > Maybe you've got your wires cooled by liquid nitrogen (which would also
> > help with the voltage drop problem).
> >
> > There's a whole raft of exceptions to the ampacity/OCP correlation..
> > For instance:
> > Motor circuits
> > Phase Converters
> > Devices rated 800A or less (just in case you were running that 100kW
> > transmitter)
> > transformer secondary conductors
> > etc.
> >
> > Article 225 covers the rules for "outside branch circuits and feeders"
> > which has different rules than normal interior wiring.
> >
> > Then, there's probably a raft of special stuff in the 500s Certainly,
> > Art 530 (Motion picture and Television Studios) has all sorts of weird
> > stuff permitted.
> >
> > Finally, your local AHJ (Authority Having Jurisdiction) might allow all
> > sorts of odd things for certain uses (i.e. farm buildings).
>
> There is also a provision in the code that allows an undersize line and
> breaker to feed the kitchen stove. It seems a very stupid thing to do
> though but it is legal. The idea is that you will not have all the
> burners and oven on at the same time. But if you should turn them all on
> at the same time (cooking thanksgiving dinner) you may have nuisance
> breaker interruptions. Go figure.
The code is a "minimum" standard, not a "design guideline" or even a "good
practice".. P.E.s and architects (and, I'll bet, contractors) run into this
all the time when the owner/developer asks why you're designing something
more than the bare code minimum. If you're building a subdivision of 500
houses, the difference between AWG14 and AWG12 makes a significant
difference in cost, even if the lights do blink a bit more.
The code's designed to make sure the house doesn't burn down, not that it's
livable.
>
> But the bottom line is that I think you would be hard pressed to find
> any exception in the code that would allow for a breaker to be oversized
> to the extent that was being discussed. #10 wire with a 50 amp breaker!
>From an old code (1981, but I don't think it's changed much, and I don't
have my current code handy)
Article 530-18 Motion Picture Studios
(b) Feeders ....
The overcurrent device setting for each feeder shall not exceed 400 percent
of the ampacity of the feeder, as given in Tables....
(d) ... The rating of the fuses or setting of the circuit breaker shall not
be over 400 percent of the safe ampacity of the cables or cords as given in
Tables ....
Table 310-16 gives 40A for 85C and 90C AWG10 wire (in a conduit or cable or
earth) based on 30C ambient.
Table 310-17 gives 55A for 85C or 95C AWG10 insulated wire in free air.
So, based on 530-18, you could OCP that AWG10 romex at 160A in a movie
studio, if you were bold enough. (And, from first hand experience, there's
lots of folks in the industry who are that bold, if not bolder, to the point
of frightening)
But even at home, if you used "knob and tube" (uninsulated wires in free
air), you might be able to get away with AWG10 wire and a 50A OCP. Maybe
not a good idea, but probably within the code.
> Keep in mind that the panel feeding that line is in the house so part of
> that line falls under what the house is subject to. The other end of the
> line at the barn is inside (I assume) and falls under a structure
> related code also.
Hmmm. farm outbuildings are pretty unregulated even in Los Angeles county
(something that a friend of mine counted on back in the 80's...build a small
cabin to code with all the permits, then have a bunch of "outbuildings" with
all sorts of useful functions..)
Regulatory Life has changed a lot locally, so I wouldn't count on
duplicating this today.
>
> Anybody can do what ever they want to do but giving that type of advice
> here may get someone in trouble in more ways than one.
>
I think the relevant advice is:
Do sensible things.
If you do things that aren't sensible, but are "within the code", be sure
you've done your homework.
> 73
> Gary K4FMX
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 20:48:01 -0600
From: "Keith Dutson" <kjdutson@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [TowerTalk] PL-259 Soldering temperature
To: "'TowerTalk'" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <E1Ctd4x-0007Bs-00@pop-a065c28.pas.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Now at home, found the one we took is P2K Portasol. Also have the larger
WPA2 Pyropen. That one sounds like a jet taking off when igniting.
Keith NM5G
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of W3YY
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 6:46 PM
To: TowerTalk
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] PL-259 Soldering temperature
To All -
I've used a Weller Catalog No. WPA2 "Pyropen" successfully for years. I
don't solder outside unless absolutely necessary, but this iron has done the
job for me on PL-259's and smaller jobs. It's a wonderful outdoor soldering
tool.
73, Bob - W3YY
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Dutson" <kjdutson@earthlink.net>
To: "TowerTalk" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: [TowerTalk] PL-259 Soldering temperature
I took a Weller propane iron kit on the VP8WWW DXpedition. I don't remember
the model number but it was about $50 from the 'net and came with a variety
of tips/attachments. It performed quite well although we did not try it on
any PL259 connectors. The iron has a heat range controlled by a valve and
we had it set to about half way. I think it would work on a PL259 but would
be quite difficult in windy conditions.
Keith NM5G/VP8DXL
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Red
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2005 10:03 PM
To: TowerTalk
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] PL-259 Soldering temperature
Hi, Gang;
Any experience or advise on using a propane heated soldering tip for
soldering the PL-259? I'm referring to the rather heavy tips, 1/4 or 3/8"
diameter. They can be custom made for extra mass and to mate the job. They
tend to get too hot and burn the flux if the propane is turned on full.
Should they be filed to fit the curve of the connector or to fit into the
hole?
73 de WOØW
_______________________________________________
See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any
questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
_______________________________________________
See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any
questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
_______________________________________________
See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless
Weather Stations", and lot's more. Call Toll Free, 1-800-333-9041 with any
questions and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
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End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 25, Issue 149
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See: http://www.mscomputer.com for "Self Supporting Towers", "Wireless Weather
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and ask for Sherman, W2FLA.
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