-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 6:56 AM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9
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Today's Topics:
1. RE: Rising VSWR (realex)
2. Re: Full wave loop on 80m : Impedance 50 or 75 Ohms?? (Jon Ogden)
3. Re: static drainage (Jon Ogden)
4. 204ba to 18 mhz.? (David McAulay (VK3EW))
5. Re: Rising VSWR (Chuck Counselman)
6. Re: Full wave loop on 80m : Impedance 50 or 75 Ohms?? (Jim Apple)
7. steve@netmakers.com (Chuck Counselman)
8. RE: Rising VSWR (N2TK, Tony)
9. RE: steve@netmakers.com (N2TK, Tony)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 04:44:06 -0600
From: "realex" <realex@flash.net>
To: "Tom Branch" <tom@k4nr.org>, TowerTalk@contesting.com
Subject: RE: [TowerTalk] Rising VSWR
Message-ID: <MBBBJMKNJGBOPFHCDEHFEELBCHAA.realex@flash.net>
In-Reply-To: <009301c2c691$3a45b680$0200a8c0@verizon.net>
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Measure the VSWR with a different meter and see if the problem goes away
Bob, W5AH
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com]On Behalf Of Tom Branch
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 11:51 PM
To: TowerTalk@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] Rising VSWR
Greetings,
I'm trying to chase down a problem in my antenna system. On 80 and 160
meters, I see a rise in VSWR after calling CQ for a while or running
RTTY.
This would lead me to balun saturation, but I have three baluns on the
tower
for my sloper array it happens with any of them. They are 160 - 10
meter
baluns from the Radioworks and rated at 5 kW. I also have a line
isolator
near the shack that's rated for 160 - 10 meters rated at 2 kw. There is
also a Alpha-Delta 2 kw Transitrap in the line. The antenna is resonant
with a 1.1:1 VSWR. on the test portions of 80 and 160 meters. All the
parts appear to be rated for the legal limit with the exception of the
RG-8X
in the shack. I note the coax between the tuner and the single-point
ground
does get a bit warm with high-power RTTY. I plan on replacing the run
from
the tuner to the single-point ground (where it converts to RG-213) this
weekend with RG-213. Could the coax be causing the VSWR rise? I've run
RTTY
on 20 meters at the legal limit--the coax gets warm but no rise in VSWR.
Thoughts or ideas?
Tom
tom@k4nr.org
http://www.k4nr.org
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 06:51:57 -0600
From: Jon Ogden <na9d@speakeasy.net>
To: Lee Noonan <vk2lee@maxnet.net.au>, Towertalk
<Towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Full wave loop on 80m : Impedance 50 or 75
Ohms??
Message-ID: <BA5BD90C.1FFAD%na9d@speakeasy.net>
In-Reply-To: <009601c2c67b$8eb50420$e4f6a8cf@vk2lee>
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Message: 2
Lee,
Dug out an old textbook from my antenna class in college (Antenna Theory
and
Design by Stutzman and Thiele). On page 250 of the book they are
discussing
full wave loop antennas.
"The square loop antenna is most useful in practice for a one-wavelength
perimeter becuase of the desirable input impedance properties.......The
input resistance for a one wavelength perimeter is about 100 Ohms."
Unless I am reading something wrong, it appears that 100 Ohms is your
answer.
The antenna with the impedance range between 50 and 75 is the dipole. A
resonant half wave is about 70 Ohms.
Now, I forget what happens to the impedance when parasitic elements are
added as in a Quad.
If I am incorrect, I am more than willing to be corrected!
73,
Jon
NA9D
on 1/27/03 9:15 PM, Lee Noonan at vk2lee@maxnet.net.au wrote:
> I have been using Full wave loops on 80m since 1987 and have always
used 75
> Ohm coaxial cable as feedline without a Balun. I know of other hams
that use
> a Balun on a full wave loop. My Loop is Rectangular in Shape and fed
in the
> center of one of the shorter sides. The Antenna is terminated with a
gap of
> around 3 inches between the ends.
> This was how it was described , for a German Quad antenna which is a
Full wave
> loop in a Diamond shape terminated at one of the sharp pointed
ends..The
> German Quad was Quoted with an Impedance of roughly halfway between 50
& 70
> Ohms Impedance.. My Quad antenna is 33 feet high at all 4 points. Any
> Comments on what impedance this Antenna May be at the feed point and
how to
> feed it with Coaxial cable... I am about to run ALL new cables thru
the roof
> of My House and I'm wondering whether to use 50 or 75 Ohm Cable...
-------------------------------------
Jon Ogden
NA9D (ex: KE9NA)
Citizen of the People's Democratic Republik of Illinois
Life Member: ARRL, NRA
Member: AMSAT, DXCC
http://www.qsl.net/na9d <- Updated on 1/22/03!!!
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
------------------------------
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 07:01:21 -0600
From: Jon Ogden <na9d@speakeasy.net>
To: <ww5l@gte.net>
Cc: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] static drainage
Message-ID: <BA5BDB41.1FFAF%na9d@speakeasy.net>
In-Reply-To: <3E3564F5.751E90E2@gte.net>
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Message: 3
on 1/27/03 10:57 AM, Tom Anderson at ww5l@gte.net wrote:
> If you're disconnecting the coax outside, don't forget about the
equipment
> grounds. Several years ago a friend of mine in Arlington TX had all
of his
> coax disconnected when lightning hit the top of his 60 ft. tower. The
surge
> came down the tower and into the ground underneath his house and came
back up
> his equipment ground located on the opposite side of the house from
the tower.
> It fried everything he had common point "grounded" in the shack,
including his
> Icom 751A.
I thought about this some more. I bet he did not have his shack ground
and
tower grounds connected.
I wouldn't say the lightning "traveled through the ground and up into
his
shack again." Rather, when the lightning struck, it raised the
potential of
the ground at his tower. Since the ground acts as a large capacitor it
can
only dissipate so much of that charge instantaneously and the rest
decays
over time (I think I said that right!). From what you told me, he had
his
shack well grounded with multiple rods. So while his tower is raised
high
in potential, his shack stays at ground on the other side of his house.
That's a large potential difference and * POOF! * his equipment went.
Just another example of why connecting grounds is important so that
everything rises and falls together. Sure glad everyone on the
reflector
convinced me of that after putting my tower up! :-)
73,
Jon
NA9D
-------------------------------------
Jon Ogden
NA9D (ex: KE9NA)
Citizen of the People's Democratic Republik of Illinois
Life Member: ARRL, NRA
Member: AMSAT, DXCC
http://www.qsl.net/na9d <- Updated on 1/22/03!!!
"A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
------------------------------
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 00:30:54 +1100
From: "David McAulay (VK3EW)" <davidew@alphalink.com.au>
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] 204ba to 18 mhz.?
Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20030129003054.00e508b0@pop.alphalink.com.au>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Message: 4
Hi All
Wonder if someone can tell me where i might get some info
on using a Hygain 204BA on 18 mhz.
I was told one of the magazines had an article on it.
Would you know which one.?
Thank you
73 David VK3EW.
------------------------------
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:43:29 -0500
From: Chuck Counselman <ccc@space.mit.edu>
To: TowerTalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rising VSWR
Message-ID: <p04320434ba5c2f573e54@[192.168.0.2]>
In-Reply-To: <009301c2c691$3a45b680$0200a8c0@verizon.net>
References: <009301c2c691$3a45b680$0200a8c0@verizon.net>
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Message: 5
At 11:50 PM -0600 1/27/03, Tom Branch wrote:
>...On 80 and 160 meters, I see a rise in VSWR after calling CQ for a
>while or running RTTY. This would lead me to balun saturation...
>They are 160 - 10 meter baluns from the Radioworks and rated at 5
>kW. I also have a line isolator near the shack that's rated for 160
>- 10 meters rated at 2 kw....
I have two RadioWorks type T-4 line isolators, both of which
overheated while I was transmitting 1.5 kW. One caught fire.
Dissection revealed that they were wound with 0.2-inch (o.d.) coaxial
cable and potted in plastic foam. The coax had PTFE dielectric,
which was nice but did nothing to reduce the I-squared-R heating of
the skinny center conductor of the coax; and the foam is thermally
insulating! So it was 100% clear why they had overheated.
RadioWorks' power rating for these devices
<http://www.radioworks.com/ct-4.html> is:
">1500 watts if SWR < 3:1, SSB/CW duty cycles*
"*Not rated for AM, RTTY or other high duty-cycle modes."
Since you say that you were running RTTY, you have probably been
overheating your line isolator. Is its PVC pipe housing still
perfectly straight, or has it developed a slight curve like that of a
banana? Both of mine had gotten curved.
Your line isolator overheating will not raise your VSWR, but your
balun(s) overheating will; and RadioWorks' baluns are probably
constructed as their line isolators are. (They look similar
externally.)
-Chuck, W1HIS
------------------------------
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 05:45:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Apple <wb1dog@yahoo.com>
To: Jon Ogden <na9d@speakeasy.net>, Lee Noonan <vk2lee@maxnet.net.au>,
Towertalk <Towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Full wave loop on 80m : Impedance 50 or 75
Ohms??
Message-ID: <20030128134549.75655.qmail@web10401.mail.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <BA5BD90C.1FFAD%na9d@speakeasy.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Message: 6
I feed mine with 450 ladder line and a 1:1 choke balun
in the shack just before my tuner (kat2). I can work
all bands with this config and it really gets out,
much better than the could burner reputation would
suggest. I have measure the impedance at around 90 on
80 and from 36 to 600 on other bands. The tuner
cleans it up and it really sings for me.
btw: I feed it with coax for the first 2 years and
what I found was the losses in the coax made it look
like it was a good match on other bands but it really
wasn't. I got a real big improvement just by going to
ladder line, nothing else was changed.
- Jim
--- Jon Ogden <na9d@speakeasy.net> wrote:
> Lee,
>
> Dug out an old textbook from my antenna class in
> college (Antenna Theory and
> Design by Stutzman and Thiele). On page 250 of the
> book they are discussing
> full wave loop antennas.
>
> "The square loop antenna is most useful in practice
> for a one-wavelength
> perimeter becuase of the desirable input impedance
> properties.......The
> input resistance for a one wavelength perimeter is
> about 100 Ohms."
>
> Unless I am reading something wrong, it appears that
> 100 Ohms is your
> answer.
>
> The antenna with the impedance range between 50 and
> 75 is the dipole. A
> resonant half wave is about 70 Ohms.
>
> Now, I forget what happens to the impedance when
> parasitic elements are
> added as in a Quad.
>
>
> If I am incorrect, I am more than willing to be
> corrected!
>
> 73,
>
> Jon
> NA9D
>
>
> on 1/27/03 9:15 PM, Lee Noonan at
> vk2lee@maxnet.net.au wrote:
>
> > I have been using Full wave loops on 80m since
> 1987 and have always used 75
> > Ohm coaxial cable as feedline without a Balun. I
> know of other hams that use
> > a Balun on a full wave loop. My Loop is
> Rectangular in Shape and fed in the
> > center of one of the shorter sides. The Antenna is
> terminated with a gap of
> > around 3 inches between the ends.
> > This was how it was described , for a German Quad
> antenna which is a Full wave
> > loop in a Diamond shape terminated at one of the
> sharp pointed ends..The
> > German Quad was Quoted with an Impedance of
> roughly halfway between 50 & 70
> > Ohms Impedance.. My Quad antenna is 33 feet high
> at all 4 points. Any
> > Comments on what impedance this Antenna May be at
> the feed point and how to
> > feed it with Coaxial cable... I am about to run
> ALL new cables thru the roof
> > of My House and I'm wondering whether to use 50 or
> 75 Ohm Cable...
>
> -------------------------------------
> Jon Ogden
> NA9D (ex: KE9NA)
>
> Citizen of the People's Democratic Republik of
> Illinois
>
> Life Member: ARRL, NRA
> Member: AMSAT, DXCC
>
> http://www.qsl.net/na9d <- Updated on 1/22/03!!!
>
> "A life lived in fear is a life half lived."
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
>
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
=====
- Jim Apple (WB1DOG)
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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------------------------------
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:24:37 -0500
From: Chuck Counselman <ccc@space.mit.edu>
To: TowerTalk@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] steve@netmakers.com
Message-ID: <p04320436ba5c41b392b3@[192.168.0.2]>
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Lately, every time I post a message to TowerTalk, I get back a couple
of "nondelivery" error messages like the following one, relating to
<steve@netmakers.com>. Am I the only TT subscriber getting these?
Can this problem be fixed at the TowerTalk server level ? -Chuck,
W1HIS
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>From: "System Administrator" <postmaster@netmakers.com>
>Subject: Undeliverable: Re: [TowerTalk] Rising VSWR
>To: ccc
>Reply-To: "System Administrator" <postmaster@netmakers.com>
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>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:56:27 -0500
>X-Priority: 3
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>
>Sorry, your message to steve@netmakers.com could not be delivered.
>
>The specific error is:
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>
>
>The original Message was:
>
>=======================================================================
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To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:43:29 -0500
>To: TowerTalk@contesting.com
>From: Chuck Counselman <ccc@space.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rising VSWR
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
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>....
>
------------------------------
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:29:14 -0500
From: "N2TK, Tony" <tony.kaz@verizon.net>
To: "'Tom Branch'" <tom@k4nr.org>, <TowerTalk@contesting.com>
Subject: RE: [TowerTalk] Rising VSWR
Message-ID: <003b01c2c6d9$a2354c40$6401a8c0@tony>
In-Reply-To: <009301c2c691$3a45b680$0200a8c0@verizon.net>
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Message: 8
Had swr increase with power on time 3 times. These all occurred with
1.5KW.
- BN-86 on a TH7 caused an increase in swr after a few minutes of key
down.
- A section of hardline had taken a lightning hit. Couldn't find it for
a
while. Finally found a slight bulge in the outer covering, but no holes.
A
good portion of the shield was vaporized. But there was just enough
shield
left for a dc ohm measurement. When I first keyed down it was fine.
After a
minute or tow the swr increased.
- Last year my swr was changing on 80m. Turned out to be we have very
acidic
soil here in NY. 20' of my feed lines were several inches in the ground
to
get through a flowerbed. Over 8 years the shield on the hardline became
gooey. Actually it was decreasing the swr until I lifted the grounds
from
the other feedlines. Then it went up.
Tom, share with us what you find is causing the problem.
Tony
N2TK
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com]On Behalf Of Tom Branch
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 00:51
To: TowerTalk@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] Rising VSWR
Greetings,
I'm trying to chase down a problem in my antenna system. On 80 and 160
meters, I see a rise in VSWR after calling CQ for a while or running
RTTY.
This would lead me to balun saturation, but I have three baluns on the
tower
for my sloper array it happens with any of them. They are 160 - 10
meter
baluns from the Radioworks and rated at 5 kW. I also have a line
isolator
near the shack that's rated for 160 - 10 meters rated at 2 kw. There is
also a Alpha-Delta 2 kw Transitrap in the line. The antenna is resonant
with a 1.1:1 VSWR. on the test portions of 80 and 160 meters. All the
parts appear to be rated for the legal limit with the exception of the
RG-8X
in the shack. I note the coax between the tuner and the single-point
ground
does get a bit warm with high-power RTTY. I plan on replacing the run
from
the tuner to the single-point ground (where it converts to RG-213) this
weekend with RG-213. Could the coax be causing the VSWR rise? I've run
RTTY
on 20 meters at the legal limit--the coax gets warm but no rise in VSWR.
Thoughts or ideas?
Tom
tom@k4nr.org
http://www.k4nr.org
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 09:55:10 -0500
From: "N2TK, Tony" <tony.kaz@verizon.net>
To: "'Chuck Counselman'" <ccc@space.mit.edu>, <TowerTalk@contesting.com>
Subject: RE: [TowerTalk] steve@netmakers.com
Message-ID: <001601c2c6dd$41e82480$6401a8c0@tony>
In-Reply-To: <p04320436ba5c41b392b3@[192.168.0.2]>
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Message: 9
I just got one.
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com]On Behalf Of Chuck Counselman
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 09:25
To: TowerTalk@contesting.com
Subject: [TowerTalk] steve@netmakers.com
Lately, every time I post a message to TowerTalk, I get back a couple
of "nondelivery" error messages like the following one, relating to
<steve@netmakers.com>. Am I the only TT subscriber getting these?
Can this problem be fixed at the TowerTalk server level ? -Chuck,
W1HIS
>Return-Path: <postmaster@netmakers.com>
>Received: from dns01.netmakers.com ([209.57.80.7])
> by space.mit.edu (8.9.3/csr-2.4c) with ESMTP id JAA06514
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08:56:27 -0500
>Message-Id: <200301281356.IAA00258@dns01.netmakers.com>
>From: "System Administrator" <postmaster@netmakers.com>
>Subject: Undeliverable: Re: [TowerTalk] Rising VSWR
>To: ccc
>Reply-To: "System Administrator" <postmaster@netmakers.com>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:56:27 -0500
>X-Priority: 3
>X-Library: Indy 9.0.11
>X-UIDL: 563b3f7635fb9bc09f3a5b6b6ebc664e
>
>Sorry, your message to steve@netmakers.com could not be delivered.
>
>The specific error is:
>server error - Need RCPT (recipient)
>
>
>The original Message was:
>
>=======================================================================
====
======
>
>Received: from 216.1.128.73 by 209.57.80.7 (LogSat Software SMTP
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> id 18dW1q-0000cW-00
> for TowerTalk@contesting.com; Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:43:54 -0500
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Message-Id: <p04320434ba5c2f573e54@[192.168.0.2]>
>In-Reply-To: <009301c2c691$3a45b680$0200a8c0@verizon.net>
>References: <009301c2c691$3a45b680$0200a8c0@verizon.net>
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
>Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 08:43:29 -0500
>To: TowerTalk@contesting.com
>From: Chuck Counselman <ccc@space.mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rising VSWR
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>X-BeenThere: towertalk@contesting.com
>....
>
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End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 1, Issue 9
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