--------- Begin forwarded message ----------
From: "w8ji.tom" <w8ji.tom@MCIONE.com>
To: Fred Hopengarten <k1vr@juno.com>, towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] fractal antenna
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 00:57:07 -0500
Message-ID: <0F4H0025Y0I1Z6@pm05sm.pmm.cw.net>
<< Hi Fred,
I can't argue religion.>>
Fractal antennas are not a religion Tom. They are a science of which you
refuse to have any interest in exploring the extant literature. IF you were to
do so, you would find a vast body of publications--since 1995-- that I did not
write (as well as the ones I did). For example: Carles Puente's January 1998
article in IEE Electronics Letters confirming the high efficiency of (just)
electrically small fractal antennas. And, gee; there is a very interesting
article coming out sometime on Rumsey's Principle--or what's left of it. Isn't
that some very good science?
You seem to confuse science with religion.
> be lithographed, but his present 10 meter quad is pretty damn small and
> appears to work very well. I saw his logbook at a party at his house
last
> Sunday.
Logbooks can't prove or disprove a ten dB difference in efficiency let
alone a fraction of a dB, especially on ten meters where the world can be
worked with a fraction of a watt ERP. Any comparison requires an A-B test
against a well known and accurate reference.>>
No; nor are they intended to do so. Fred is an old friend who I unfortunately
have rare occasion to see nowadays (because I have to work so damned hard.) I
showed him the log book because I knew he would enjoy seeing it, enjoy my
success. He does not feel threatened by it. Why do you? Why do you feel
compelled to attack me in front of my friends?
BTW, I was quite direct on the web site (www.fractenna.com) that this 10M FQY
could not be tested directly in its environment against a 10M dipole. No
room.You just totally discount the validity of the NEC4 modeling, despite its
results: 1) in free space ; AND 2) over modeled ground.
You want measurements. HOWEVER, you failed look at the web page's 2M results
from 1994. A 2 el FQY.That was an 'A-B' comparison. I didn't make the
measurement; WK1O did. Or perhaps we should doubt Sasha too....And you know
darned well I do such A-B fractal comparisons on a daily basis at 400 MHz and
higher. It is fatuous to suggest that I have not done this. You know I have.
Why haven''t you? Go build one and test it. Say.... I said that first to you
in July 1996....
<<If you look at my logbooks, you'll find contacts on 160 meters with VK,
ZL,
and dozens of Europeans from my *mobile*. Scale my eight foot tall 160
mobile antenna to ten meters 8/16= 1/2 foot tall. Scale the ground
losses,
and propagation losses from 160 to ten meters. My 160 meter mobile
antenna
is less than one percent efficient, and it works DX on 160. Even with no
change in efficiency, I would work much more DX on ten.>>
> Again, I fully concur that these are the right questions to ask, and I
> know that Chip will, in due course, be trying to answer them.>>
Tom has posed no questions that were not answered by me years ago. Now, there
is a field of fractal antenna design and darned if this doesn't irk him. Too
bad. The days are long since gone when I was the only player Tom.
<< That will be the moment of truth. Until facts are presented, it's just
hyperbole. Look at the quad, and it's claimed two dB of advantage. When
valid tests were made, all claims (that were not supported by physics)
evaporated. >>
The moment of truth has long since been revealed and crystallized. Unless you
feel the only way to be convinced by fractal antenna attributes is to fill up
Rt 2 and place a 10M dipole on another tower for comparison. Again, one
wonders why you have never modeled or tested (even) a simple, fractally bent
piece of wire that would take 3 minutes to make....
Chip N1IR
<<, 73 Tom
--------- End forwarded message ----------
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Subject: "w8ji.tom" <w8ji.tom@MCIONE.com>: Re: [TowerTalk] fractal antenna
Message-ID: <19981224.102803.13151.27.k1vr@juno.com>
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From: k1vr@juno.com (Fred Hopengarten)
To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 10:21:26 EST
>>
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