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[TowerTalk] Towers & Trees

To: <towertalk@contesting.com>
Subject: [TowerTalk] Towers & Trees
From: n7ml@imt.net (Michael Lamb)
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 1998 21:03:54 -0600


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From:   John Langdon[SMTP:jlangdon@outer.net]
Sent:   Monday, August 10, 1998 12:05 PM
To:     towertalk@contesting.com
Subject:        RE: [TowerTalk] Towers & Trees

John and others:  

Just another fly in the ointment.  Don't forget the attenuation that a forest 
of trees brings, especially on VHF and UHF!  I remember driving along a high 
mountain road in Sequoia (sp?) National Park while talking through a two meter 
repeater that was about 100 miles away in the direction that I could see almost 
that far.  Every time a grove of Redwood trees came between me and the horizon, 
the signal would go from full quieting to nil.

A few years later I put up a moonbounce array for two and six meters with 4 
yagis each on an H frame.  I had a 90 foot self-supporting crank up tower and 
lived next door to a forest of Alder trees (and K7LXC on the other border 
line).  Time and time again I tried to work EME through the trees (even in 
winter when the leaves were gone) at moonrise only to be disappointed.  Most 
every time I raised the tower up to the point the array was looking out over 
the canopy of trees, the EME signals just popped right out of the noise.

Unfortunately, I never had an HF antenna on that tower to see what the effects 
were for HF and besides, it would be hard to separate the ground enhanced gain 
from the tree attenuation.  If anyone has any hard information on attenuation 
of forests on HF signals, I for one would like to hear about it.

I have never forgotten those earlier experiences and when I moved to Montana I 
looked for property with no natural trees and now I sleep easy every night when 
the winds are blowing about 80 mph or so, knowing that no trees will fall 
across the guy wires.  With no trees on my property, I am also able to better 
enjoy looking out at the forests on the mountains at a distance.  Now if I 
could just convince my wife how great it is!

73/Mike, N7ML


You should consider the trees to have a 100% set back requirement ala some 
municipalities: if the tree would fall across a guy or anchor during a full 
length fall in any direction, it should be gone.  Then visualize the trees 
10 years from now and apply the same standards to them now.  Be mindful of 
limber limbs that during high winds could rub against guys (especially 
Phillystran).  Watch the trees during a thunderstorm with 50+ mph winds and 
you will be amazed at the excursions some of those limbs can make.

I cleared 100's of junipers out of the way, and about a dozen oaks that did 
not meet the above requirement (but I'm set for firewood for a while!). 
 Even if you have an ordinance that requires replacing any tree you remove, 
it is still cheaper than replacing the tower and guys, or disputing an 
insurance claim denial as to whether or not your failure to remove the 
trees was not good installation practice.   We would have never been able 
to run the tram line (much less the back guys) or get the antennas up on to 
the tower if we hadn't removed some of the tree cover. I still don't have 
all my slopers up because of the hassle of getting a line up and over the 
all the trees and through the antennas mounted on the tower, but I draw the 
line at removing trees for that, at least at this point.   I am planting 
more trees than I removed (voluntarily) to shade the shack and reduce 
visibility of the antennas from the road.

BTW, sometimes the tree huggers are good for DX.  The city is buying 
multiple 1000's of acres near my remote QTH to make sure they never get 
developed, which for me means less QRN and fewer potential TVI target 
devices.

73 John N5CQ


-----Original Message-----
From:   Bill Fisher - W4AN [SMTP:w4an@contesting.com]
Sent:   Monday, August 10, 1998 11:01 AM
To:     LYN
Cc:     towertalk@contesting.com
Subject:        Re: [TowerTalk] Towers & Trees

When it comes to trees, my advice is to figure out what trees you need to
take down.  Then take 50% more.  This advice was given to me by K5ZD and
I chose to ignore it.  The tree-man was happy I did.

73

W4AN


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