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Re: Topband: Low frequency RX antenna

To: <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Low frequency RX antenna
From: "K9AY" <k9ay@k9ay.com>
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2024 13:49:11 -0500
List-post: <mailto:topband@contesting.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2024 22:09:05 +0000 (UTC)
From: Mark Connelly <markwa1ion@aol.com>
To: "topband@contesting.com" <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Low frequency RX antenna
Message-ID: <24396951.595.1728079745347@mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

I have a few questions about the VE3DO loop as described 
at:http://www.k3lr.com/engineering/VE3DO/OptimizedDOLoop.pdf

> Hi Mark ... see comments below:
--------
With reference to Figure 1, are the 9:1 transformer and termination resistor 
located close to each other, i.e. pretty much within a foot or two of each 
other and the center of the antenna, or is there more separation? I was 
guessing that for a 40 ft. top horizontal length, each of the bottom 
horizontals would be somewhere between 18 and 20 ft. even though not explicitly 
stated.
--------
> The feed and termination are adjacent -- either side of the ground 
> connection, like it's cousin the K9AY Loop.
-------- 
Can the ground of the transformer just be tied over to the ground of the 
termination resistor without any connections to ground rods, mesh, radials etc. 
and, if so, can the whole assembly be elevated to at least 8 ft. base height in 
situations where people, animals, vehicles, yard/farm maintenance machines etc. 
may need to pass under? I know that Flag antennas can be deployed this way 
without the ground connection but could the VE3DO be also?
--------
> The ground connection is part of the antenna. This is what allows connection 
> and direction reversal at the center. You can elevate the loop, but it's 
> important to keep the ground wire vertical. 
--------
Has anyone looked into Vactrol remote adjustment of termination?
--------
> Vactrols will work, but they are temperature sensitive (including heating 
> from operating current). They drift and require constant readjustment.
--------
Another scheme would be 4:1 transformers at both sides, two 100 ohm balanced 
lines (twisted pairs) to the operating position, a 4 pole 2 throw switch to 
send one side to a 2:1 balun to receiver/amp coax. for the forward side and the 
other side to a 0-250 ohm pot for in-shack termination control (would be 
transformed to 0 to 1K at the antenna). That set-up would provide pattern 
reversal via the switch.
The above set-up has been successfully done with Flags of reasonable size with 
short (under 200 ft.) feedline distances.
--------
> No experience with the in-shack adjustment you propose, but N4GG and others 
> have used the 2-XFMR connection for simultaneous 2-direction RX (diversity). 
> This requires extra care to maintain the termination impedance through the 
> system: XFMRs, feedline, and RX imput. 
--------

73, Gary
K9AY


And while I'm at it....

> Tim,
> Why is this preferred over a K9AY?
> Wes? N7WS

Wes -- "Better" is what achieves your own performance goals. -- Both the VE3DO 
and K9AY configurations have a single, very deep rearward null. The "low/wide" 
shape of the VE3DO puts the null at a low takeoff angle. This should be better 
for DX signals. I chose the original "delta" shape for ease of installation 
rather than pattern, but over the years have found that its higher angle null 
is very good at reducing domestic (one-hop) QRM. I've gotten similar feedback 
from European users. - K9AY



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