Hi Lee,
Your testing will be inconclusive unless you inject water into your
connectors, or you could just move to Maryland where we get at least
45 inches of annual rainfall and it gets into everything thats not well
waterproofed
73
Frank
W3LPL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee STRAHAN" <k7tjr@msn.com>
To: "Dennis W0JX" <w0jx@yahoo.com>, topband@contesting.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2020 7:15:56 AM
Subject: Topband: RX Power over Coax
Hi Dennis and top band interested folks,
The very first amps I made for myself were using an external power wire. Using
external power required some pretty heavy choking on each end of that added
wire. I started experimenting with power over the signal coax. I could not see
or measure any difference in noise floors with usually new components including
coax. After a number of years' experience I now believe that if there was a
weakened connection that would allow micro arcing then that same weakening
would cause a perturbation in the operation of the array also. This resultant
lack of performance would signal the operator that something was wrong. All the
elements in most of my designs are required to operate and feed signal
continuously to the combiner regardless of the direction selected so all would
be susceptible. It's my opinion as I have not witnessed any arc sounding
interference or noise floor increase that I could not identify as external to
the array. Keep in mind I have not done yearlong in depth projects to veri
fy my observations or real levels of possible noise. I am sure a fully loaded
environmental laboratory could do this but so far I cant.
If one desired to power the amplifiers externally any noise current that would
be developed on a single wire must then also flow into the power terminal where
it would encounter a generally large filtering capacitor across the power rails
of the amp and its ground side. The noise current would then flow right through
to the amp ground terminal and be impressed upon the array ground rod. This
also is not a desirable thing as the ground rods exhibit impedance and a noise
voltage could then show up as added to the element signal. Series inductance in
this line can help. So it appears the best answer to this is to use a second
coaxial cable or 2 wires to supply the voltage and power ground to the amp. Now
with both + power and ground wires feeding power to the amp one can use common
mode filtering to remove the noise flowing to ground and an additional
inductance to decrease any noise voltage on the center of the coax carrying the
plus power voltage.
Its true, I have built a couple versions of Hi-Z amps with RG-6 external power
connections for Tim at K3LR. He has serious common mode filtering on these
power lines as well as the signal lines and I suspect serious filtering on the
supply voltage as well. There may in my mind be some advantage of external
power in keeping multiple transmitter signals off the array power as well.
Its also true that I have a small circuit board I can install on the back of a
second coax connector on the New version SMD amps. The board offers 5000 ohms
of common mode protection on 160M and a series inductance for the center wire
providing 1 mHy inductance giving some isolation for power supply or induced
center conductor noise. No need for expensive giant ferrite cores on the coax
lines. Common mode protection is built in to both the coax power input and the
coax signal output.
So due to lack of interest I have not championed the idea of providing this
external power capability. I think the reputation of success with Hi-Z and its
power over coax stands for itself as to the existence of the problem at Hi-z or
the public would be letting us all know something is wrong. Trust me on that. I
cant speak for any other designs.
In addition to this noise incursion possibility I have uncovered another
possibility of micro arcing unrelated to the coax. As it stands most of these
arrays are powered from an in shack power supply. With some of these arrays
drawing 1/2 an amp or more if using a wireless remote relay setup. This causes
a significant voltage drop on power wires leading to the array. With the power
supply grounded at the shack and the Hi-Z amps grounded at the array elements
there is often a voltage difference between shack ground and element ground
caused by the power supply current flow. This voltage difference causes a
current flow in the ground rod. In more than 18 years of operation I will soon
have to replace my original Steel Tee post mounted elements as the ground end
of the posts has been eaten away by what I assume to be electrolysis. My theory
is that there could be noise developed on the ground rod at the element caused
by this voltage dropped between the shack and the array causing the e
lectrolysis. Noise on the ground rod shows directly up as received signal. My
new version of SMD amps have been designed so that DC voltage will not be sent
to the ground rod at the elements. If anyone has experienced noise as a result
of the power over coax with a Hi-Z array I would welcome information of the
circumstances. Come to think of it, I believe I have a new amp with external
power laying around here. I will make it a point to see if I can identify any
noise difference between amps with and amps without External power. This will
make an interesting experiment even if its inconclusive.
I can modify the new amps for this external power on direct to me special
request..
73
Lee K7TJR
Hi-Z Antennas
Subject: Topband: RX Power over Coax
Regarding the issue of voltage over coax to power the preamps used at the base
of short verticals, Lee, K7TJR, developed an alternative power feed system for
his new SMD preamps using a separate RG6 coax. Apparently, K3LR is using such
an approach to avoid sending voltage down the coax in his 8 element HiZ array
at his contest station.
DXE has begun selling the new version 2 preamps but the description in their
catalog does not mention this separate power feed system. The older HiZ
preamps, and the YCCC preamps, can probably be modified to the voltage with a
separate wire from the combiner box to each vertical antenna preamp.
One question I have with this approach is whether an external power wire would
also need a common mode choke on it. Perhaps Lee could offer some opinions on
this alternative power approach.
73, Dennis W0JXMilan, OH
_________________
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
_________________
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
_________________
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
|