Topband
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: Topband: Problems with inv L on pier over salt water

To: Topband@contesting.com
Subject: Re: Topband: Problems with inv L on pier over salt water
From: Gary K9GS <garyk9gs@wi.rr.com>
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 2020 18:12:46 -0600
List-post: <mailto:topband@contesting.com>
Thank you Grant...you said it better than I. The important thing is to keep the 
wire out of the water.Robert,If you were to use 1 or 2 radials suspended above 
the water, could you support the ends using some pipe or mast driven into the 
bottom or wedged between some rocks?  It just has to be above the water a 
couple feet, taking into account waves and the tide. 73,Gary K9GS
-------- Original message --------From: Grant Saviers <grants2@pacbell.net> 
Date: 1/8/20  4:58 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: 
Topband: Problems with inv L on pier over salt water Important facts about salt 
water are the attenuation of a wire submerged 10" at 1MHz is -87db and at 4S/m 
the conductivity is 10,000,000 times less than copper wire.Putting a single 
radial in a lossy medium doesn't work very well, whether it is dirt or 
saltwater.  Radials elevated in low loss air work very well, especially over 
salt water.  They should not connect to the water just as elevated radials over 
land should not be grounded.Modeling shows that one elevated radial over salt 
water has a few db skew in the pattern but with 5 to 6 dbi very low angle peak 
gain. With two radials the pattern is nearly perfectly symmetric.These are the 
far field benefits of the ~1000x higher than earth conductivity of salt water, 
so the salt water needs to extend out 5 or so wavelengths.Grant KZ1WOn 1/8/2020 
12:41, Ignacy Misztal wrote:> There was a report from an expedition where the 
radials in water did not> work well but over water did. Over salt water, one 
radial (counterpoise) is> enough and more do not add performance.> I used 
Expert 1.3k with a tuner. The amp turned itself off hundreds of> times over the 
past few years due to wrong antenna or something going> wrong, with no 
consequence. The way it should be.> > Ignacy, NO9E> > On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 
2:35 PM Rik van Riel <riel@surriel.com> wrote:> >> On Wed, 2020-01-08 at 12:01 
-0600, Cecil wrote:>>> I’m far from an expert but if you were over salt water I 
would have>>> placed the counterpoise in the water.>>>> Word of the day: skin 
depth>>>> Having the counterpoise over the water means the antenna>> current 
goes through the (copper) counterpoise, of known>> resistance.>>>> Dropping the 
counterpoise into the water might mean that>> the current will be split between 
the counterpoise and the>> water, at an unknown (and changing with the waves 
and tides)>> proportion.>>>> That could be better.>> It could also be 
worse.>>>> Could it damage the antenna tuner, if it changed>> too quickly? Who 
knows?>>>> Now what might make some sense is to have a few>> shorter wires come 
down from the feedpoint and>> into the water, to add additional paths for the>> 
current, without impeding the path through the>> counterpoise.>>>> I have no 
idea how much that could help, though.>>>> -->> All Rights Reversed.>>> 
_________________> Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - 
Topband Reflector> _________________Searchable Archives: 
http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
_________________
Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector
<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>