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Re: Topband: Modeling Transmit Antenna Affect on Rx Antenna Performance?

To: "Paul@PaulFerguson.us" <Paul@PaulFerguson.us>, "topband@contesting.com" <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling Transmit Antenna Affect on Rx Antenna Performance?
From: Lee STRAHAN <k7tjr@msn.com>
Date: Fri, 30 Sep 2016 19:31:08 +0000
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
Paul, I suggest you talk to Gary KD9SV as he built a Hi-Z around his TX 
antenna. 
  Incidentally the ground radials under the Hi-Z is not a good idea. I suspect 
you would have to use NEC4 to see the real effect of the radials. I have not 
made a test myself to see how close radials could be. Disconnecting the T 
element on one band like 160 will work for that band but likely will not work 
the same on 80 meters. Leaving it connected might be better. Same situation 
with the feedline impedance looking back toward the radio. That may change with 
band as well.
Lee  K7TJR

-----Original Message-----
From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Paul Ferguson
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 12:10 PM
To: topband@contesting.com
Subject: Topband: Modeling Transmit Antenna Affect on Rx Antenna Performance?

For transmit I use a 160M T antenna with on ground radials. I am considering 
installing a Circle-8 receiving array such as one made by Hi-Z. The receive 
array would be very close to the T, maybe within 100 feet. I am using EZNEC to 
see how the transmit antenna proximity affects the pattern of the Rx array.

I have a simple EZNEC model of a 4 square Rx array. The model uses a source on 
each 20-foot Rx vertical, with the pattern determined by the phase of each 
source. 

I put models of the T and the Rx array in the same EZNEC model. With the source 
removed from the T, the radials are connected to the T portion of the antenna. 
This configuration shows a big degradation in Rx front to back ratio. If I open 
the T at the feed-point by either putting in a source with zero current or 
simply breaking the connection between the T and its radials, running the model 
shows little to no affect on the Rx pattern.

I could use a relay at the antenna to disconnect the feed line near the 
feed-point when not transmitting, but I would rather avoid the relay because of 
running QSK and wanting to avoid the wiring run.

My modeling runs, using either an effectively open or shorted feed line at the 
T, do not represent my real system because it is not open or shorted. The feed 
is about 350 feet of coax to a K9YC-designed common-mode choke and a 1:1.56 
unun. I am wondering if there might be value in disconnecting the feed line 
from the antenna and measuring the impedance looking back into the 
unun/choke/coax string. Take this impedance and add it as an RLC network 
connected across the feed-point of the T antenna. My thought is this would be 
close to what the Rx array is really seeing when I look for the affect of the 
nearby T in the EZNEC run.

Am I on a decent path or lost in the woods?

73,
Paul, K5ESW


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