Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"

["Carl" <km1h@jeremy.mv.com>]

Nope but the RX antennas usually allow you dig a long way below the TX 
antenna noise.
Most of the world isnt so lucky to have a selection of RX antennas or if 
they do the local QRN is too loud; another 10dB often helps (-;
Carl
KM1H


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charlie" <charlie-cunningham@nc.rr.com>
To: "'Carl'" <km1h@jeremy.mv.com>; "'Tom W8JI'" <w8ji@w8ji.com>; "'TopBand 
List'" <topband@contesting.com>
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 2:27 PM
Subject: RE: Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"


> Doesn't  help  you HEAR any better!
>
> Generally, on top band, even with my modest inverted- L with a few 
> elevated
> radials, if  could hear 'em I could work  'em!   With 500 W. Best thing I
> ever did for myself was to put up some quiet terminated receiving loops, 
> so
> I could hear much better!
>
> 73,
> Charlie, K4OTV
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Topband [mailto:topband-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Carl
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 12:39 PM
> To: Tom W8JI; 'TopBand List'
> Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"
>
> A 3CX15000B7 or similar makes up for a lot of things and especially to 
> those
> who always want to be on top in a pileup or contest.
>
> Carl
> KM1H
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tom W8JI" <w8ji@w8ji.com>
> To: "'TopBand List'" <topband@contesting.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2014 9:51 AM
> Subject: Re: Topband: Modeling the proverbial "vertical on a beach"
>
>
> > For receiving, an absence of noise sources in the path is all the
> > difference in the world. As an example of this look at what N7JW and K7CA
> > did from the Utah desert area. Utah desert is like the anti-saltwater, 
> > and
> > they are located much further from Europe than the east coast with a 
> > worse
> > polar area path, yet they had outstanding results. Saltwater has the same
> > advantage, as do freshwater bodies, of a lack of noise sources in what
> > might be a desired direction.
> >
> > For efficiency (which only affects transmitting), the advantage is
> > primarily concentrated at low angles and primarily affects vertically
> > polarized systems. The question then becomes one of wave angle and
> > polarization.
> >
> > Then there is distance as a factor, and path loss related to the magnetic
> > poles, which are factors.
> >
> > A good station has a combination of everything going for it, but there is
> > no magic and there certainly isn't any 10 dB or more involved just from
> > being near saltwater. A few dB here and there from multiple factors are
> > what make the difference. Move 25% or 50% closer, get rid of noise 
> > sources
> > in the path, increase vertical antenna performance at low angles a few 
> > dB,
> > and get away from going past the magnetic poles and it is a winner. It
> > isn't from magic, and it isn't all from the presence of saltwater, and it
> > is not 10-20 dB by any stretch of the imagination.
> >
> > 73 Tom
> > _________________
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