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Re: Topband: Nested Loops with one feedline results

To: "Richard \(Rick\) Karlquist" <richard@karlquist.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Nested Loops with one feedline results
From: "Tom W8JI" <w8ji@w8ji.com>
Reply-to: Tom W8JI <w8ji@w8ji.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 2013 19:13:25 -0400
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
The 18/24 is not a good analogy, because those bands
are not octave spaced.  My modelling indicated that
you need to open up the lower frequency antenna at
two places, 180 degrees opposed, in order for it not
to affect the higher frequency antenna.  Also, the
openings should be such that the remaining wires
are cross polarized to the higher frequency antenna.

Rick and all,

There is often some combination of open feedline length and loop circumference that tunes other bands. The unused feedline isn't an open or short unless it is a certain length. Depending on length and termination, the unused feeder has a range of complex impedances that can tune the unused antenna to any band that is either resonably close or higher in frequency.

There are many more length ranges that do not tune it to a band, so it more often than not can work, but working is a statistical result more than any sort of open or short.

For example, a 14 MHz delta has a feed impedance of about 120 -j1100 on 10.2 MHZ. If the unused feeder length presents around +j1000, the loop will be tuned around 30 meters even though it is not resonant by itself.

The same loop is around +j1200 on 17 meters, so it could be tuned there also with an unlucky unused feeder length. Of course the issue is worse on bands where the unused loop is a sub-harmonic of the operating band, like a 14 MHz loop near an antenna operated on 28 MHz, but the problem can actually move almost anywhere depending on luck.

The more loops that are randomly nested with random feeders, the greater the odds some bands will "mess up".

It is a myth to think loops will not interact, or that some random unplanned thing that works for one guy will always work for the rest of the world. They are really no different than any other antenna.

73 Tom
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