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Re: [TenTec] Top receivers

To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Top receivers
From: "Bob McGraw - K4TAX" <RMcGraw@Blomand.net>
Reply-to: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment <tentec@contesting.com>
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 06:37:26 -0500
List-post: <tentec@contesting.com">mailto:tentec@contesting.com>
The rated output/distortion topic is, by most manufactures, a means or a 
method of expressing the performance of the receiver audio system.  There's 
always three required ingredients being (a) rated power output expressed in 
watts, (b) THD or THD+n usually measured at rated output power and expressed 
as a percentage, and (c) load impedance expressed in ohms.  And of course 
one could add frequency response, but for ham receivers it's really not that 
important.  I don't ever recall anyone publishing the audio spec using the 
value specified at the level where any degree of signal clipping takes 
place. Oooh, that would be nasty.

Home audio systems typically use much higher voltage output devices as the 
same for automotive systems that incorporate switching inverters to get the 
12 VDC to values ranging from 39 to 75 volts.  Thus with the higher voltage 
systems, more voltage swing with higher current values can be developed 
across a given load and hence more power output watts.  This is, as I see 
it, one reason we find higher distortion and typically 2 to 3 watts of audio 
output on receivers as they must operate at a nominal 12VDC and in certain 
cases with limited values of current.  This also invokes the reason, to some 
extent, we find the transmitter IMD numbers at less than desired values, 
although they meet the current FCC required specifications for spectral 
purity.

Regardless if we like it or not, we ARE dealing largely with voice 
communication systems or systems that are intended to produce audio in the 
most sensitive area of human hearing.  The old Bell Telephone system numbers 
of 300 Hz to 3000 Hz still  prevails.  That's a bandwidth of 2700 Hz. 
Agreed, any added distortion to the signal does or is likely to produce 
hearing fatigue.  At this point one must then add the SPL value applied and 
the time duration figures to determine the figure of merit with that regard.

If one desires a higher listening level than the ham receiver audio system 
produces, being some 2 to 2.5 watts  into a 3" to 5" communication speaker, 
then as said in an earlier post, use the Line Output fed to your favorite 
high power audio amp and speaker system.  Still the distortion figures may 
not greatly improve as different designs of product detectors along with AGC 
characteristics will add certain distortion artifacts to the recovered 
audio.

The point to all of this, we rarely operate our radios at audio levels that 
approach their distortion limits.  Of course the basic objective is not to 
have any peak distortion hence the need for the headroom, but in practice, 
the average audio level is much less than 1 watt into 8 ohms with an degree 
of an efficient speaker system.

73
Bob, K4TAX




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Richards" <jruing@ameritech.net>
To: <k9yc@arrl.net>; "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" 
<tentec@contesting.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] Top receivers


> On 5/16/2012 10:42 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>
>> With some receivers it certainly does, especially those that are power
>> or supply voltage limited.  BUT -- I like to think that I know the
>> difference between my ham rig and my home entertainment system.
>
>
> I KNOW I know the difference, and kinda resent
> the sarcastic implication...             ;-)
>
>
>
>> FWIW, for ham radio at home, headphones have ALWAYS been my primary mode
>> of operation.   I use a loudspeaker only for casual listening.
>
>
> ME TOO... in fact I am a huge headphone / headset
> junkie.   I am blessed in that my XYL does not whine
> about me spending money on stuff... including another
> headset.    We both use the best wireless headphones
> for listening to old time radios shows - the sound never
> alters no matter where we roam throughout the place.
> Makes raiding the fridge safe - we never miss any of
> the show even though we leave the room.
>
> My preference on headsets is also related to the fact
> the microphone is always a close talking type, which
> stays put in the same place, no matter how far back
> from the desk I lean, or whether I turn my head
> from side to side, etc.   A close-talking microphone
> tends to be more noise rejecting  (I don't like the
> term noise cancelling... but that is another topic
> for another day....)
>
>
> Every
>> radio I've ever owned has had quite adequate drive for headphones.  On
>> the other hand, a mobile radio, including a talkie, needs enough audio
>> to get over ambient noise, and many of these rigs don't.
>
>> 10% distortion is a standard spec for industrial paging systems.
>
>
> I suspect this tends to reinforce my point...
> I think...     ;-)
>
>
>
>> 10% distortion is a standard spec for industrial paging systems.
> That's  the distortion at the peak of the signal just below clip,
> and is typical of many computer sound cards.
>
>
> Geeze...are you sure about that ?
>
> I have been testing sound cards and microphones for
> speech recognition companies since 1992... and no sound
> card I ever used was rated at  10% THD.
>
> Typical specifications for cards in my machine might
> look like this:
>
> Output THD+N at 1kHz (Front-out) : <0.0025 %(-92 dB)
> Input THD+N at 1kHz : <0.0022 %(-93 dB)
>
>
>
> Even the venerable old Creative Soundblaster Audio PCI 16
> had numbers like this back in the 1990s :
>
> Signal to Noise Ratio: 90 db
> Total Harmonic Distortion @ 1 Vrms (10 KOhm load): 0.01%
>
>
> I cannot address the rest of the post, as I am embarrassed
> to admit I don't follow how it relates to the topic of ham
> radio audio ...  sorry.
>
>
> ------------------------ K8JHR  -----------------------
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