Re: [TenTec] OT: Ground Radials at Tower Base

["Derwin Goliver" <dgoliver001@woh.rr.com>]

OK will do some ck'ing.
Hey whille we are on antenna's...
Someone know where I can find some info . I am looking to put my 5/8  wave 
10 meter gound plane above my TA 33m Mosley. And I dont want it reduceing 
gain as much as possable.
NOW I built this 5/8 wave 10 meter antenna. So I was going to remove the 
radials. Hopeing this would help protect the beam. And then let the beam act 
as a conterpose/ radials . Now I had heard that just less than 1/8 wave was 
best. Between the vertical and the beam .
But I was looking for info. And so far am not finding any. I have only one 
antenna tower and rent. So I have to put them on the same one. And we have a 
local net on friday night . And a group of us met on 28.430 almost every 
night. So I must keep the Vertical. Given time I could find this. But I may 
get more input here.
Thanks
Derwin

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Billy Cox" <aa4nu@ix.netcom.com>
To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2008 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] OT: Ground Radials at Tower Base


> Sadly Derwin, you are very "missaken". Do a search
> on W8JI, or read ON4UN's Low band DXing books to
> learn how ground system really work.
>
> There is "no free lunch" with radial systems.
>
> 73 de Billy, AA4NU
>
> -----Original Message-----
> > From: Derwin Goliver <dgoliver001@woh.rr.com>
> > Sent: Aug 16, 2008 12:52 PM
> > To: geraldj@storm.weather.net, Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment 
> > <tentec@contesting.com>
> > Subject: Re: [TenTec] OT:  Ground Radials at Tower Base
> >
> > Well now....
> > As far as radials go. I like to mount my verticals off the ground.
> > Becouse just a few 1/8 wave off the ground. Is better than many in the
> > ground.
> > If I am not missaken. Some thing like 2 1/8 wave off the ground = 
> > something
> > like100 in the ground.
> > I have a 5/8 wave 20 meter vertical with 3 off the ground (gound plane
> > style) . Thas I made this antenna is smoken' .
> > I mounted it on the garage roof in  a tri pod. With 3 14 foot radials and 
> > a
> > matching coil at the base.
> > Thing is this needs guys. Becouse of its 41 1/2 foot heighth .
> >
> > Derwin
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Dr. Gerald N. Johnson" <geraldj@storm.weather.net>
> > To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> > Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 10:40 PM
> > Subject: Re: [TenTec] OT: Ground Radials at Tower Base
> >
> >
> > > On Fri, 2008-08-15 at 19:46 -0400, Gary Hoffman wrote:
> > > > If you improve your grounding system, you will always be happy that you
> > > > did.
> > > >
> > > > To say it will or will not reduce noise requires knowing a lot more 
> > > > about
> > > > the specific details of your setup.
> > > The grounding system for a vertical antenna is often deficient. That's
> > > easily seen when the antenna SWR is low, but there's no matching
> > > network. The perfectly grounded vertical should have a feed point about
> > > 35 ohms. If the number of radials and ground rods is small, they can
> > > contribute resistance to the feed point impedance raising it towards 50
> > > ohms for a better apparent match. But with the radiation resistance 35
> > > ohms and the ground resistance contributing half that much, the antenna
> > > efficiency is 2/3 what it ought to be for both radiation and reception.
> > > So improving the vertical antenna grounding (more radials, 50 is a
> > > start, 256 is considered enough in broadcast circles, and more rods)
> > > hurts the match but improves the antenna efficiency. That may actually
> > > increase the noise heard, but it will increase DX signals by the same
> > > amount so ought to be a wash. Unless a radial happens to contact a
> > > ground from a noisy power pole.
> > > > If there are grounding issues (and maybe there are not) and you fix 
> > > > them,
> > > > it
> > > > can certainly help.
> > > The good noise reception on a vertical is why some 80 and 160 meter
> > > DXers use a loop or Beverage for reception (directivity, not efficiency
> > > is the goal) and the vertical only for transmission. Its hard to beat a
> > > vertical for low angle (and thus best DX) radiation and reception, but
> > > the propensity of a vertical to hear in all directions makes it hard
> > > without going to an array of verticals to hear the weakest of signals
> > > over the noise. Even atmospheric noise can be directional, so a
> > > directional receiving antenna can be a benefit.
> > >
> > > 73, Jerry, K0CQ
> > >
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