That's only because the K1/K3 don't do weight properly. Weight should be
the ratio between the dit and dah length, not "on vs off" time in each
element.
73, Duane
On Sun, 25 Jul 2004 12:49:16 -0400 "Steve N4LQ" <n4lq@iglou.com> writes:
> This is really so simple and the K3 propaganda has folks confused.
> Simply put. Some rigs chop dits. Your keyer makes a nice heavy dit
> and the
> rig shortens it.
> There is a cure....Increase the weight of your keying.
> You can do this with most any elcheapo MFJ keyer.
> Idiot Press's K3 not only has a weight setting but what they call a
> "keying
> compensation" adjustment. They are blowing smoke about the "delay"
> issue
> just to make you think their keyer has something that others don't.
> Here is proof to the doubters.
> Listen to yourself on another receiver. Try changing the weight and
> compensation and LISTEN. You will see that they do EXACTLY the same
> thing to
> your signal. They are duplicate controls.
> The only difference is in the sidetone of the K3 keyer. The sidetone
> will
> follow the weight control but not the compensation setting.
> People gobble up this compensation talk like it's the final cure for
> their
> QSK ills and rate the K3 very high while all along it has no
> advantage to
> other keyers and in fact, I found the timing of their "mode B" to
> be
> slightly different than a real Curtis chip and am able to key with
> less
> errors on the real thing. 73
> Steve N4LQ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tommy" <aldermant@alltel.net>
> To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 11:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
>
>
> > It must be Sunday because my brain cell just can not tell the
> difference
> > between increasing the key-on time and decreasing the key-off
> time, and
> > changing the weight ratio of a character.
> >
> > If you delay the key closure, you are not keying anything, so how
> does
> that
> > increase something that has not started yet?
> >
> > If you delay the key closure to "decrease the keying-off time",
> how can
> you
> > decrease the off time of something that has not started?
> >
> > Maybe this is one of those things that are much harder to explain
> the to
> > actually do? The radio is not going to (obviously) start producing
> RF
> until
> > the key is closed, so if your delaying the time before you close
> the key,
> > the radio is just sitting there staring at you, until you actually
> close
> the
> > key.
> >
> > I think I need a beer. At least it's something to ponder for the
> rest of
> the
> > day. Make that two beers!
> >
> > Tom - W4BQF
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Don Watters" <ve1bn@eastlink.ca>
> > To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 25, 2004 9:45 AM
> > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> >
> >
> > > Steve -
> > >
> > > You asked "How does the rig know it's "make" is being delayed
> by a
> > keyer?"
> > >
> > > It's the reverse, the key closure is delayed to increase key-on
> time,
> or
> > > decrease
> > > keying-off time, by the amount of mS you set to match the rig's
> on
> delay.
> > > The
> > > adjustment is independent of speed and is used to correct
> keying
> > distortion
> > > of
> > > various transceivers.
> > >
> > > You will note that ARRL tests of key closure versus signal
> transmit
> delay
> > of
> > > different rigs are shown. I measured the mS needed to
> compensate my
> > > rigs from those test pix. The Paragon II was "dead on" using
> the
> Paragon
> > > (1)
> > > test results. Saved a lot of fussin".
> > >
> > > 73 - Don VE1BN@eastlinbk.ca
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steve N4LQ" <n4lq@iglou.com>
> > > To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 9:17 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes sir. I had a K3 Super Duper CMOS here for some time. I
> sold it
> > because
> > > I
> > > > didn't like the mode B emulation. Other than that, it's ok.
> Listening
> to
> > > the
> > > > weight vs. "keying compensation" adjustment in another
> receiver, they
> > > seem
> > > > to do exactly the same thing which is to increase the length
> of the
> > > > characters. The only difference is that the "keying
> compensation"
> > doesn't
> > > > affect the K3's racus sidetone.
> > > > Now I have a question about one of your statements.
> > > >
> > > > "Keying compensation allows the make to be delayed so that
> the start
> of
> > > the
> > > > > rig's
> > > > > keying envelope matches the keyer. The weight control is
> different."
> > > >
> > > > How does the rig know it's "make" is being delayed by a
> keyer?
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, for some rigs, especially ICOMS, when used in QSK
> mode, extra
> > > weight
> > > > is needed. When I use my MFJ 407 with the PROII in QSK mode, I
> simply
> > > crank
> > > > up the weight control about 30%. In Semi-bkin mode, I turn it
> back to
> > > > normal. The sidetone in the PROII reflects this change and
> sounds
> rather
> > > > heavy. When using the K3 keyer, you get the same exact effect
> when
> > > > increasing either the "weight" or "compensation". If you can
> stand to
> > > listen
> > > > to the sick duck sidetone of the K3, the weight of the
> sidetone is
> > > preserved
> > > > by increasing the "compensation" instead of the "weight". So
> basically
> > the
> > > > "compensation" adjustment is a gimmick.
> > > > Most TenTec rigs do not seem to require additional weight but
> las Tom
> > > > mentioned, the Omni 6+ does need a little help over about 45
> WPM. The
> > > Orion
> > > > seems to be rather unpredictable in this reguard. Mine was
> choppy at
> > first
> > > > then I upgraded the software and it sounded much better but my
> QSK
> > became
> > > > slow. Maybe there's a relation!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Steve N4LQ
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Don Watters" <ve1bn@eastlink.ca>
> > > > To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 7:45 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Whatever, Steve. Please don't take me for a fool. Guess I
> am just
> a
> > > > lucky
> > > > > fellow
> > > > > with a CMOS Superkeyer 3 which can compensate keying in
> various
> rigs.
> > > > Ever
> > > > > try one? Was a cmcl op, used a bug for 40 years from early
> ham
> days
> > in
> > > > > 1946
> > > > > until I sold my little Zephyr 5 years ago. I've used the
> CMOS for
> the
> > > past
> > > > > 9.
> > > > >
> > > > > Guess I'm a true blue CW op too!! I know you don't
> tighten the
> > dits
> > > up
> > > > > on a bug
> > > > > as close as suggested.
> > > > >
> > > > > Keying compensation allows the make to be delayed so that
> the start
> of
> > > the
> > > > > rig's
> > > > > keying envelope matches the keyer. The weight control is
> different.
> > > It
> > > > > shortens
> > > > > the spacing of characters, sort of runs them together if too
> much
> > weight
> > > > is
> > > > > set. Big
> > > > > difference. These are heard in the Ten-Tec sidetones.
> > > > >
> > > > > Was just suggesting a possible solution, but forget it OM,
> you
> > > apparently
> > > > > already
> > > > > have the answers....
> > > > >
> > > > > By the way, no offence taken or meant.
> > > > >
> > > > > 73 - Don VE1BN@eastlink.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Gosh. just seems to do the job. ----- Original Message
> -----
> > > > > From: "Steve N4LQ" <n4lq@iglou.com>
> > > > > To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 8:06 PM
> > > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Keying compensation? Delay? Sounds like a line from the K3
> manual.
> I
> > > > > suppose
> > > > > > if he had a keyer he could crank up the weight but I'm
> not sure
> > the
> > > > ole
> > > > > > boy owns one. He's a true, blue cw op! Bug only! BTW: That
> "keying
> > > > > > compensation" is just another weight control. The only
> difference
> in
> > > > that
> > > > > > and a regular weight control on a Curtis keyer is the fact
> that it
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > > affect the sidetone (which few people use anyway).
> > > > > > Steve N4LQ
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Don Watters" <ve1bn@eastlink.ca>
> > > > > > To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:19 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Steve -
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any way he can set the keying compensation? I found my
> Paragon
> > II
> > > > > needed
> > > > > > > about 15 mS delay to give a smooth keying
> characteristic. No
> > > shortened
> > > > > > makes
> > > > > > > or clicks. Worth a try if he can set it up.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 73 - Don, VE1BN@eastlink.ca
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "Steve N4LQ" <n4lq@iglou.com>
> > > > > > > To: <tentec@contesting.com>
> > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, July 24, 2004 6:30 PM
> > > > > > > Subject: [TenTec] omni v short dits
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > A friend of mine has an Omni V and he is trying to use a
> bug
> > however
> > > > the
> > > > > > > dits are being chopped so badly that he can't use it.
> I've never
> > had
> > > a
> > > > > > > TenTec rig that chopped dits like this one. I've hear
> him on the
> > air
> > > > and
> > > > > > > even with his dit weight screwed to almost touching, he
> sounds
> > > > horrible.
> > > > > > > It's like something is wrong in the keying circuit. Has
> anyone
> > > > > experienced
> > > > > > > this?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Steve N4LQ
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > TenTec mailing list
> > > > > > > TenTec@contesting.com
> > > > > > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/tentec
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > TenTec mailing list
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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>
--------------------------------------
Duane Calvin, AC5AA
Austin, Texas
http://home.austin.rr.com/ac5aa
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