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[SECC] Reference for radial discussion

Subject: [SECC] Reference for radial discussion
From: halken at comcast.net (Hal Kennedy)
Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 23:35:31 -0000
Hi George,
 
Maybe that?s why this is done so seldom ? the 32.5% saving in copper has not 
been worth the extra trouble.? With copper prices where they are now ? maybe it 
would pay off ? particularly if you wanted to do what we did at K4JA.? The 9 
circle 80M vertical array there had 100 100ft radials under each of the 9 
antennas.? That?s 90,000 feet (about 18 miles) of wire.? It took all summer to 
put it down, but it sure did work good!
 
Terman, Kraus, LaPorte and others are on the bookshelf here as well.? I have a 
few radio rooks from the 20s and 30s that have remarkably good and accurate 
descriptions of how things work ? as valid today as ever.
 
Best 73,
Hal
N4GG
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: w4buw at aol.com [mailto:w4buw at aol.com]
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 11:25 PM
To: halken at comcast.net
Subject: Re: [SECC] Reference for radial discussion
 
Hi, Hal... just ran some quick number crunching based on your description of 
the circular tie-ring radial grid, and come up with the following:

Center to first ring:     16x33= 528
First ring to second:   32x33=1056
Second ring to 100ft: 64x34=2176
Total radial lengths:            3760

Tie ring 1:  =piD1=3.14x 66=207.24
Tie ring 2:  =piD2=3.14x132=414.48
Total Tie ring length:          621.72

Total wire length:  3760+621.72=4381.72 ft

For 64-100ft radials:  64x100=6400 ft


4381.72/6400=.6846..., or roughly 68.5%

I suspect the roughly 55% comes from just the radial length, which comes out 
58.75%, if you do not count the need for the tie rings...

I'm an old retired EE who got this call when still 12 yrs young, and will be 69 
next birthday.  Many changes in the hobby, but still enjoy the number 
crunching, HI!

As you know, the key is to improve the ground system efficiency in order to 
reduce that portion of the antenna system losses. Part of the consideration is 
the dimensions between ground system conductors as compared to the wavelength 
at the operating frequency.  Yes, I also enjoy Terman, Jasik, and LaPorte, as 
well as Kraus.

73 de George, W4BUW (SECC, SC)

-----Original Message-----
From: Hal Kennedy <halken at comcast.net>
To: secc at contesting.com
Sent: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 4:48 pm
Subject: [SECC] Reference for radial discussion
The concentric radial approach I mentioned I thought was discussed within the 
564 page book: Radio Antenna Engineering, by LaPorte.  This is a classic and 
good addition to anyone?s antenna library ? particularly considering the price 
? free.
 
Go to www.lulu.com <http://www.lulu.com/>   and type ?Antenna Engineering? into 
the search box.  It?s the first book returned in the search.  You can download 
all 33Meg for free.
 
Meanwhile, I can?t find the particular radial approach I was thinking of in the 
book, although many different radial schemes are discussed.
 
Concentric system:
 
The problem with radials that simple radiate out from a central point is that 
they do not cover each square meter of ground equally well.  They are spaced 
far apart at the ends and tightly bunched at the center.  To get a ?really 
good? radial system it is sometimes recommended that 120 radials be used or the 
ends be no more than 0.02 wavelength apart ? broadcasters frequently use 120.  
For the first few feet from the tower its nothing but solid copper and most of 
this is wasted.  The alternative is as follows:
 
Suppose you want a 64 radial system of 100 foot radials.  Place a concentric 
circular loop wire 33 feet out from the center and another 66 feet out from the 
tower.  Connect 16 radials from the center to the fist ring wire, 32 radial 
wires from the first ring wire to the second, and 64 wires outward from the 
outer ring wire to 100 feet.  In all cases the wires should be equally spaced 
around in azimuth angle.  This system will use around 55% as much copper as 64 
full sized radials (I forget the exact ratio) and yield the same performance.  
Soldering all the wires to the ring loops however, is a lot of extra work.  If 
its going to be in or on the ground for a long time then regular solder should 
not be used either ? it should be silver solder.
 
73
Hal
N4GG
     



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