RFI
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [RFI] Common Mode Noise?

To: jim@audiosystemsgroup.com
Subject: Re: [RFI] Common Mode Noise?
From: David Eckhardt <davearea51a@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2025 22:52:05 +0000
List-post: <mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
WWVB, 60 kHz was installed and only until recently had a "BIG" parallel
XMSN line running from the transmitter house to the "coil house" where the
vertical antenna was kept matched.  It might have been some 1000-feet long
and was made of two conductors, each about 1.5-inches OD.  Inside, the
shack looks like something Mr. Tesla (not Musk!) would have been right at
home with.  One is forbidden to park a modern vehicle near the "house" as
the RF fields render all electronics "dead".  You can park it if I doesn't
stall on the way, but you can't restart it.

Dave - WØLEV

On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 10:41 PM Jim Brown <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>
wrote:

> Again, thanks!  I remember reading about that military project, forget
> where. Great example!
>
> The first times I encountered open wire line were either on a tour of
> the Crosley VOA site by our senior EE class (U of Cincy), or maybe at AM
> broadcast stations, where it is widely used and coaxial to feed
> verticals. I've also seen that coaxial open wire line at commercial HF
> communications RX and TX sites north of San Francisco.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
> On 1/22/2025 1:54 PM, David Eckhardt wrote:
> > Jim, far too many hams solidly believe open wire, parallel conductor
> > XMSN lines, radiates just because it isn't shielded.  Absolutely wrong
> > if care is taken to keep the currents balanced and the phases opposite.
> > They simply do not understand nor want to take the time to understand
> > the rank basics of a transmission line, coax or open wire, or for that
> > matter, G-line.
> >
> > Nor do they understand that ANY amateur antenna like a dipole is
> > UNBALANCED.  Period!  Even Uncle most times can not assure that.  As you
> > commented, the local environment dictates unbalance between the two
> > sides of a dipole, unless it's in free space.....  How many of us
> > absolutely assure homogeneity for a couple of lambda below our
> > antennas?  I'll bet none of us hams do, myself included.  But I know how
> > to build, measure, and install common mode chokes and use them
> > intelligently.  Further, I have never, except for the first three or so
> > years I was licensed, "grounded" (earthed) my station.  Three kinds of
> > earth connection:  1)  safety (the "green" wire), 2) ESD bleed dump, and
> > 3) lightning remediation (not direct strikes, but for radiated fields
> > from near-by strikes).  Also, realize the typical amateur budget does
> > not allow for protection against direct strikes!
> >
> > When Uncle installed the ported coax around the fissile material storage
> > facility on Kirtland AFB in Albuquerque, N.M., he spent millions and
> > millions of your and my tax dollars in preparing the surrounding soil.
> > Even then it wasn't perfect and quite problematic.
> >
> > Yes, I use parallel conductor XMSN line for my HF wires (doublet),
> > exclusively, except for my vertical which is by design, unbalanced.
> > Hams don't get that, either!  How many times have I read the question on
> > a number of sites, "Do I need a balun or common mode choke on my
> > vertical"?   DDaaaaahhhhh......
> >
> > Dave - WØLEV
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 7:35 PM Jim Brown <jim@audiosystemsgroup.com
> > <mailto:jim@audiosystemsgroup.com>> wrote:
> >
> >     On 1/22/2025 10:43 AM, K9MA wrote:
> >      > The whole point of using coax is to prevent radiation until the
> >     RF gets
> >      > to the antenna. There's no need to further complicate the issue.
> >
> >     There is no more or less radiation from a 2-wire line than from coax.
> >     What causes radiation is common mode current, and 2-wire can carry
> just
> >     as much common mode as coax of the total antenna system is
> unbalanced.
> >     Just as in coax, common mode current in 2-wire line shows up as a
> >     difference between current in the two wires, taking both magnitude
> and
> >     phase into account.
> >
> >     Antennas can be unbalanced by their surroundings, like variable
> height,
> >     sloping ground, nearby conductive objects, imbalance in the
> termination
> >     of 2-wire line in the shack, including a poorly balanced tuner or
> >     matching network.
> >
> >     73, Jim K9YC
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     RFI mailing list
> >     RFI@contesting.com <mailto:RFI@contesting.com>
> >     http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi <http://
> >     lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Dave - WØLEV
> > *
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RFI mailing list
> RFI@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
>


-- 

*Dave - WØLEV*
_______________________________________________
RFI mailing list
RFI@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/rfi
<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>