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Re: [RFI] Snap-on RFI suppression core size vs cable size

To: "'rfi@contesting.com List'" <RFI@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [RFI] Snap-on RFI suppression core size vs cable size
From: N1BUG <paul@n1bug.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2017 10:37:40 -0400
List-post: <mailto:rfi@contesting.com>
Thank you Dave!

This seems to confirm my gut feeling. I suspect if the ferrite were almost solid with just a small hole through the center (just larger than the wire) Z (or more importantly equivalent series resistance) would increase dramatically. This suggests that at VHF using a ferrite with an ID significantly larger than the wire passing through it *might* not be optimum. It may (or may not) be that using a smaller ferrite which more closely fits the wire is better even though from the data sheet its Z and Rs may be less than the larger part. It may (or may not) be that 2-4x ratio of wire size to ferrite ID is not enough to have a significant effect. My point is that there are some unknowns here. I have spent a great deal of time looking for understandable data on this and have come up with none.

I think it would be very helpful to the VHF community if someone with the proper equipment could look into this and publish some curves like those for multi-turn HF chokes in K9YC's excellent RFI-Ham.pdf paper. Z and Rs at VHF vs. wire diameter for a few common sizes of ferrite, for example. If I had a VNA and the expertise to use it correctly I would take on this project, but I don't.

I may be able to provide an experiment. Given the unknowns I am unwilling to risk buying only a large quantity of just one (large) size ferrite. I will buy a large quantity of two sizes that will be a close fit for many of the cables I need to deal with. For the time being I will buy a relatively small quantity of a smaller size which would be a close fit for my smallest cables, as these are the ones where I question the best choice. Assuming I find a small cable upon which installation of ferrites reduces my receive noise, I will compare noise reduction with three differnet size ferrites on that cable: one that is a close fit, one that is a loose fit, and one that is even more loose. This may at least tell me whether I am better off buying the smaller ferrites in quantity or going with more of the larger size.

73,
Paul N1BUG


On 08/21/2017 08:10 AM, David Robbins wrote:
I scanned a few papers this morning that talk about things like the ferrite
window fill factor and variations of inductance with wire size... then
pulled out my vna and a ferrite to try a quick experiment.  My conclusion is
that if the ferrite is much larger in diameter than the wire going through
it the inductance will be decreased.  My quick explanation of this is that a
current through a wire generates a magnetic field around the wire that is
strongest near the wire and gets weaker the farther away you go.  To get the
most flux in the ferrite in order for it to increase the inductance the
ferrite must be close to the surface of the wire.  my simple test with the
vna used a 22ga clip lead going once through a 2" diameter ferrite, when the
wire was in the middle of the core the |Z| of the single turn coil was like
38 ohms, when it was touching the inside edge it increased to 42 ohms, so it
appears to be a real and probably not insignificant effect.
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