Norm
If an AP would scale to 128 users per radio you would be ok, correct?
Sincerely
Tony Morella
Demarc Technology Group
Office: 908-996-7995
Cell: 908-246-9170
Fax: 908-847-0202
email: tony@demarctech.com
http://www.demarctech.com
Wireless Solution Provider
-----Original Message-----
From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]
On Behalf Of Norm Young
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 4:31 PM
To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
Subject: Re: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
Interesting point, Kevin. I suppose all of us are perhaps victims of
overly optimistic thinking. But that said, here's my situation: very
rural, sparsely populated, and about 3-4k households w/in reach of my
superPOP which is located up on a mountain central to the area We've
been running for 2 months now and we have all of 10 customers. (However,
the number of "interested" seems to be expanding...and this is in the
teeth of media BS notwithstanding, a pretty steep economic downturn.) No
competition in the service areas. I would like to be able to serve
60-100 customers per radio, as adding AP's means more power (i.e.;
solar) infrastructure I have to purchase and maintain (and find room
for!). Call me crazy, but I think that I can eventually get 10% of my
service area (at least) to subscribe. That's 300-400 customers. If I
have to add an AP for every 60 customers, I'm going to have to have 5-6
AP's. That's going to be an additional 4-5 more solar arrays than I
have now, and there simply is no room for them(or the batteries).
So...I'll be forced to start searching for another WiSP solution than
can scale better--and probably sooner rather than later.
Norm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Knuth" <kknuth@karlnet.com>
To: <karlnet@WISPNotes.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 04, 2002 8:10 AM
Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> Norm,
>
> We start getting into some pretty deep thinking at this point!
>
> Here is another way of looking at it: Assume you have 39 customers
> and
they
> all are allowed 128Mbps. I agree that VERY few of them will want
> their rated BW at the moment in time. BUT: If several of them are
> using the system for something...even moving a small packet....it ties
> up the BASE station radio...EVERYONE ELSE HAS TO WAIT for the BASE to
> poll them.
>
> It is more of a simple problem of how much bandwidth that you have,
> the
TIME
> it take to poll is a critical factor! The more customers you add, the
more
> crucial the polling algorithm becomes. That is why our TurboCell
algorithm
> is Adaptive and Dynamic.
>
> I am curious though, as to how many users, realistically, WISPs think
> they can support from a single BASE station (let's not worry about
> TurboCell
key
> limits at this point).
>
> Before I worked at Karlnet, I worked for a WISP in Fort Wayne,
> Indiana.
We
> catered to businesses only, as I chose to not compete with cable and
> DSL. It was VERY profitable, and is still in business today (although
> under a different name). Since we chose not to service residential, I
> found that our user density was actually quite low.
>
> I bring that up because I saw at the WCA conference a demo by Navini
> Networks. Very cool product, no doubt. NON line of sight 2.4 or
> 2.6Ghz systems with a complete CPE cost of $300! But here is the
> catch: You
need
> a base station every 3 kilometers at a price of $130,000 each! The
> Navini rep pointed out that the system can handle 1,000 subscribers,
> but I do not personally know of too many markets where you will EVER
> get that kind of user density.
>
> SO listers: Give us an idea of how many users you CURRENTLY serve off
> of base stations and how many you realistically see serving in the
> future!
>
> On side note: Through our direct sales and OEM arrangements, Karlnet
> is
one
> of the most widely used WISP solutions in the world. And, at last
> count,
I
> think we only had about 8 customers exceeding 48 users per base
> station.
I
> am curious to see if that is because they engineered around our user
limits,
> or if the customer density is simply not there.
>
> Kevin
> *************************************
> Kevin R. Knuth
> Regional Business Development Manager
> 614-822-5275 Corporate Office
> 260-424-9690 Home Office
> 260-402-6086 Cell
> www.karlnet.com
> *************************************
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> Behalf Of Norm Young
> Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 11:32 PM
> To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> Subject: Re: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
>
>
> Doug, doesn't your figures below about the number of customers at a
> given data rate assume that they are all consuming their rated BW
simultaneously?
> So, say, a bunch of 128k customers in real-life would probably never
> all want their rated BW at the exact same moment, so effectively, a
> radio
could
> support many more than 39 customers assuming a 5 Mbps connection,
> correct? (I hope this is correct, as I don't see how anyone could make
> money
selling
> 39 connections of almost anything and having to buy 3 or so T1s to
> support those 39 customers!)
>
> Norm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Support" <support@karlnet.com>
> To: <karlnet@WISPNotes.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 6:21 AM
> Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
>
>
> > Travis,
> >
> > The 200 remotes is a "Wow" number we are working towards. There is
> > no guarantee, but you set goals and try. Of course the bandwidth
> > you
promise
> > customers and your RF link quality are the leading factors in
> > numbers of remote stations you can hook up. So if you have 5 Mbps
> > throughput and everyone you sign up wants 1Mbps then the total
> > number of customers can
be
> > 5. If you sign everyone up at 128k then 39 is the limit. If your
> > RF
link
> > is poor then the throughput goes down from retransmissions and the
number
> of
> > simultaneous connections is lower. So this is something to keep in
> > mind
> as
> > we add more connections to the software.
> >
> > Doug Harman
> > KarlNet, Inc.
> > 525 Metro Place North
> > Suite 100
> > Dublin, OH 43017
> > 614 822-5275 x 123
> > 614 822-0024 fax
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
[mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> > > Behalf Of Travis Brown
> > > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:42 PM
> > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > >
> > >
> > > Doug,
> > >
> > > 200? Wow... Can the hardware really support that?
> > >
> > > Everyone gets a timeslice the size of a toothpick. :-)
> > >
> > > Travis
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > > [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]
> > > On Behalf Of Support
> > > Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 4:35 PM
> > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > >
> > >
> > > Jim,
> > >
> > > I think the confusion comes from some people calling the entire
Wireless
> > > Bridge/Router a "radio". So someone will say the limit is 64 per
> > > "radio" when actually they mean the entire hardware unit. So far
we've
> > > only had a handful of people needing more than 64 remote units per
Base.
> > > In this case we gave them a beta copy of a bin with support for
> > > 128 remotes and we got feedback that it worked. When we feel
> > > comfortable that 128 remotes works well on a number of networks,
> > > then the next
step
> > > will be for 200 +/- remotes per wireless bridge.
> > >
> > > Doug Harman
> > > KarlNet, Inc.
> > > 525 Metro Place North
> > > Suite 100
> > > Dublin, OH 43017
> > > 614 822-5275 x 123
> > > 614 822-0024 fax
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > > > [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> > > > Behalf Of Jim
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 11:05 AM
> > > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > Subject: Re: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I was sold Karlnet under the impression that I could currently
support
> > >
> > > > 64 users PER RADIO and that very soon (3 month or so ago) that
number
> > > > would go to 128 users PER RADIO.
> > > >
> > > > If what you are saying is correct, and ESPECIALLY if I will be
> > > > expected to pay more for a higher user support key, I am through
with
> > > > Karlnet.
> > > >
> > > > Jim Evans
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Kevin Knuth" <kknuth@karlnet.com>
> > > > To: <karlnet@WISPNotes.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:49 AM
> > > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Larry,
> > > > >
> > > > > We are working to get the unit to support MORE users. This is
> > > > an issue of
> > > > > programming and my understanding is we have to "move" some
> > > > > things around
> > > > to
> > > > > make room in the tables for more users.
> > > > >
> > > > > A key for 96 users is, I believe, in test at this time.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kevin
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> > > > > Behalf Of barrywhitcomb
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 9:40 AM
> > > > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I asked just this question to the Karlnet people at the
> > > > > WISPCON show. I intentionally asked this question very clearly
> > > > > to make
sure
> > > > > that I understood. I was told that Turbo ISP basestation
> > > > > FlashROM would support multiple radios, each with 48-64 users
> > > > > depending on version (and with 96 users " very soon").
> > > > >
> > > > > Barry Whitcomb
> > > > > Quantum Success, Inc. / All Clear Wireless
> > > > > 265 Paces Lakes Drive
> > > > > Dallas, GA 30157
> > > > > 770-505-1896
> > > > > F: 770-234-5334
> > > > >
> > > > > www.all-clear.biz
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > [mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]
> > > > > On Behalf Of Larry Yunker
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 10:33 AM
> > > > > To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > Subject: RE: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't agree that the limit should be set up this way. If a
single
> > >
> > > > > radio can support up to 64 client sessions, then 3 radios
> > > > > SHOULD
be
> > > > > allowed to support 64 X 3. I understand that Karlnet support
> > > > > just said that it doesn't work this way, but it really SHOULD,
> > > > > it would be a service to their clients if they would change
> > > > > that limit.
> > > > >
> > > > > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> > > > > From: "Support" <support@karlnet.com>
> > > > > Reply-To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 09:38:26 -0400
> > > > >
> > > > > >Hello Nate, thanks for the inquiry. The 64 user license is
> > > > > >for
the
> > > > > >"box" unit.This is a combination of ALL RADIO interfaces,
> > > > > >this number is based on expected throughput.So the answer
> > > > > >would be false, 3x64 is not a viable solution.RLM
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > >From: karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > >[mailto:karlnet-admin@WISPNotes.com]On
> > > > > >Behalf Of Nate McLain
> > > > > >Sent: Tuesday, June 25, 2002 10:18 PM
> > > > > >To: karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > >Subject: [Karlnet] Max Number of users with Karlnet?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I have a question about how many users you can put on a
> > > > > >flashrom unit? Maybe Doug can answer this question. When Im
> > > > > >in the configuration of the flashrom it shows that you can
> > > > > >put 64 satellite's on the interface. And I have 3 radio
> > > > > >interfaces so we should be able to put 3 x 64 satellites =
> > > > > >192 satellites. Or is this false?? Because that is what I
> > > > > >thought. But I was told otherwise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Can someone from Karlnet give some insight into this
> > > > > >question??
> > > > > >
> > > > > >TIA,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Nate McLain
> > > > > >Chisholm Trail Networks LLC
> > > > > >nate@ctrail.net
> > > > > >http://www.ctrail.net
> > > > > >580-401-6656 _______________________________________________
> > > > > >Karlnet mailing list
> > > > > >Karlnet@WISPNotes.com
> > > > > >http://lists.wispnotes.com/mailman/listinfo/karlnet
> > > > > >
> > > > > >_______________________________________________
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> > > > >
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> > > > >
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> > > >
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> > > >
> > >
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> >
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> >
> >
>
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