If the goal was to be as accurate as possible with the weighting, then the
polar path calcs should be based on the actual WWV A and K indices at the time
of the qso. These values are easily obtainable and constant until the next
value is posted. The polar path calculation should also take into account the
Sunspot number at the time of the qso – also easily obtainable.
Why do I make these suggestion in the name of improving the scoring? Because
there is an ENORMOUS difference in the band openings or lack of them depending
on SSN and A and K index values, especially at the bottom of the sunspot cycle
and this difference increases with increasing latitude.
Here is a simple example form my QTH in Western CT:
CQWW = SSN = 0 A =2, K=0
15 meter is wide open to EU for hours. Russians and Eastern Eu stations worked
– exceptional bursts of spotlight propagation and rate to DL, G, I. Hundreds
of EU qsos.
But ARRLDX = SSN = 0 A = 22, K = 3
15 meters dead except for a weak SA/Carib. Maybe a skewpath I or S5 or CT1.
Possible brief scatter opening with 30 – 50 q’s in an hour. Maybe.
The difference was the A and K indices, especially when SSN = 0.
But in W3 it was different. Marginal and better opening than me to SW EU and
for longer.
If you only take into account Latitude/Longitude and polar path angle then you
are missing an important factor in making the score fairer – you must take into
account geomagnetic cndx too which can be far more important than distance.
73
Bob, KQ2M
From: ktfrog007@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2020 7:46 PM
To: kq2m@kq2m.com ; cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Polar path handicapping
In 2011 Pat Rundall, N0HR, shared some thoughts on polar path calculations for
distance scored contests:
After reading many posts on this, I decided to create a scoring system that
would incorporate both distance and polar path. To do this, I simply used
Excel with the data from the CTY.DAT file to get lat/lon and then calculate
distance from a known point and the polar path. Users can test it with their
own QTH and tweak the effect of distance and polar path as they wish.
The default scoring method gives a score of:
QSO points = 1 + distance points + polar path points
where distance points = point to point distance in km / 5000
and polar path points = 3 * (max latitude of the path/90) (for QSOs where
the longitude differs by more than 90 degrees)
He also provided the proof-of-concept Excel file.
The calculations do not take into account solar conditions or any other
considerations.
The calculations are from your station coordinates to the CTY.DAT central
location in each DXCC countrry. This is too coarse a resolution for a final
system. Ideally, both ends should be station coordinates.
From the Excel program I get 5.58 QSO points from my Boston QTH to Japan. From
Houston it's 5.00 points. The path lengths are almost the same: 10,750 km vs
10,768 km.
I don't know if Pat has updated or further developed this idea or where to get
his files now. If they are not available from N0HR, I have copies of the 2011
files.
The path forward I see for distance scored contests is for a given contest to
be scored twice, first in the traditional way and again with an unofficial
distance scoring algorithm. The latter could be tweaked or revised each year
until we get some kind of satisfactory result. And consensus. That might be
asking a lot.
73,
Ken, AB1J
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Shohet, KQ2M <kq2m@kq2m.com>
To: cq-contest <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Sent: Tue, Mar 17, 2020 12:58 am
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Contest within a contest
Over the years, I have found that the greatest variability in path utility
comes not from the distance involved, but rather how much of that path passes
through the Northern auroral zone.
When geomagnetic cndx are quiet (A = 2 or less, K = 0) VE6JY and KL7RA can run
EU stations at EU sunrise on bands where I can’t even hear them. But when
cndx are disturbed ( A > 35 K > 4) they are in a “black hole” and I can still
work some EU (though with difficulty), but the Southern W5’s own the band.
And while K0SR might be equidistant from Europe compared to a Southern W5, his
path certainly isn’t equivalent.
There will always be inequities in contest scoring and distance scoring is one
way of addressing them, but I think that points scoring based on auroral path
characteristics combined with distance might potentially be the fairest of all.
73
Bob KQ2M
From: Denis Pochuev K7GK
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2020 5:39 PM
To: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Contest within a contest
Tor,
Yes, inequities within the zones are a problem. I'm quite familiar with it,
though in a different context, having contested from the Pacific Northwest and
the Bay Area, both at the western edge of Zone 3. You simply cannot compete
with Arizona from any of those locations in a DX contest.
The main motivations for the scheme I proposed are the overlooked inequities in
distance-based scoring. Those are glaring. For instance, let's take Vienna as
the proxy for Europe, roughly in its geographical center, even though such
center is somewhere near the Slovak-Ukrainian border. Seattle, Dallas and Miami
are roughly equidistant from Vienna, using the great circle distance as the
measure. I think it's pretty obvious that the difficulty of a contact for those
3 paths varies greatly, pretty much regardless of the band.
One cannot assume that distance-based scoring will make things fair. It will
simply will replace one set of inequities with another.
Denis - K7GK/6
________________________________
From: CQ-Contest <cq-contest-bounces+k7gk=hotmail.com@contesting.com> on behalf
of RT Clay <rt_clay@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2020 8:50 AM
To: cq-contest@contesting.com <cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Contest within a contest
Denis,
I think your scoring scheme has a critical flaw: the points for each qso
depend on basically arbitrary zone boundaries, and the zone boundaries in some
cases divide up countries with lots of entries (like the USA). For example, a
station on the western edge of zone 5 would get 3 points for working Europe in
zone 14. A station one mile away in the eastern part of zone 4 gets 4 points
for the same contact.
The IARU contest also has this problem because of the 1 point/3 points for
same/different zones. I live in western zone 8 close to zone 7. There are many
more zone 8 stations active than zone 7 stations in IARU. If I was just a
little further west my score would go up significantly.
Tor N4OGW
On Sunday, March 15, 2020, 9:13:56 PM CDT, Denis Pochuev K7GK
<k7gk@hotmail.com> wrote:
I have outlined an alternative scoring proposal for CQWW quite some time ago in
our club's newsletter. It is mostly distance-based and doesn't require any
changes to the exchange or additional grid square information.
Details are here (pages 13-17): http://nccc.cc/jug/2016/07Jul2016.pdf
I would be interested to hear opinions about this scoring scheme.
73, Denis - K7GK/6
P.S. It still doesn't address the issue of the UBNs not being available to the
scorers of contest-within-contest.
________________________________
From: CQ-Contest <cq-contest-bounces+k7gk=hotmail.com@contesting.com> on behalf
of Richard F DDonna NN3W <richnn3w@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2020 6:53 AM
To: k5zd@charter.net <k5zd@charter.net>
Cc: ko7ss@yahoo.com <ko7ss@yahoo.com>; CQ-Contest Reflector
<cq-contest@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Contest within a contest
WPX is kind of one of the only contests where you could do scoring on grid
locator. And even then, not so reliably. Behavior in contests is very
much points driven, and contesters make very strategic decisions based on
maximizing points. In WPX, 40 SSB from the midwest and east is a gold mine
when antennas are pointed towards EU. How you would score based on
distance could be quite different given that from New England, stations in
California aren't a heck of a lot closer than a station in the UK. But for
now, that UK station is worth 6 points versus 1 point for California.
73 Rich NN3W
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