Sterling. If you read through your own email, you have validated basically all
of Frank's violation list and then said well its all still okay. Its not okay.
And Ray does have responsibility for what is happening on his chat bar of his
live stream. He can shit it off because it can't be controlled within the
rules. But that would defeat the point of the social media interaction
wouldn't it. And that the point. Contesting is not social media gaming. If
some people want to promote in as "demo stations" like Ray is doing, wonderful.
But its either a checklog or its a new category.
Ed N1UR
________________________________________
From: CQ-Contest [cq-contest-bounces+edwards=sbelectronics.com@contesting.com]
On Behalf Of Sterling Mann [kawfey@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 12, 2020 10:38 PM
To: donovanf@starpower.net
Cc: CQ-Contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Merging Social Media and Contesting
Frank, we have differing opinions regarding the judgement of the W2RE's
actions and the intent of the rules.
His CQs, exchanges, and solicitations were not relayed over the
internet. *"Contacts
made through repeaters, digipeaters, or gateways are not permitted. This
applies to all forms of active relays or repeaters"* is saying the contact
may only take place without relays. No contact was made using the stream.
To do this, an S&P who could not hear W2RE but W2RE could hear the S&Per
would have to entirely use the audio of the stream to complete the contact.
However, livestreams are always on a fairly significant delay (typically
30s), so one could not make a real-time QSO with him solely by listening to
him on the stream. https://youtu.be/aydTZN4nLfU?t=20005 is one case where
someone said "love the youtube channel" but I guarantee the S&Per made the
QSO entirely via amateur radio due to this delay.
Nor was he soliciting contacts via the stream. Solicitation implies that he
was asking people to work him on a non-amateur means of communication, but
I don't think that's the case here. To solicit a QSO, he would need to give
a potential contact his frequency. Arguably he could have also said "find
me on 20m" or "find my spots" and that may have been a violation. He says
that he's at the bottom of the band here: https://youtu.be/aydTZN4nLfU?t=97
and to look on the dx cluster here: https://youtu.be/aydTZN4nLfU?t=623. I
do think saying that is not compliant to the rules, but I don't think
posting a stream of his operation is automatically solicitation.
The video does not show his frequency, which would have been a clear
violation, but others independently posted his run freq to the chat after
finding it on the cluster. Ideally, that should have been deleted, but I
don't think W2RE is responsible for what other people are saying.
Personally, I'm in agreement with others that say an unlimited category
would be good here. Ideally the self-spotting rule would not apply to
unlimited, keeping us from having to think too hard about what
self-spotting is.
Additionally, Ray seems to be aware of the chat in the beginning but later
on, as they discuss what frequency he's on, he seems to ignore it. It may
have been put out of his sight, in which case he's not responsible for
viewers conspiring together to work him. At least I don't think he is. But
this is where the problem has it's greatest merit - does the stream give
him an advantage over other operators? Averaged out over time, I don't
really think it does.
The only rule I could see him potentially violating is giving stations that
work him a non-amateur means of verifying the information in their QSO. An
S&Per might botch the QSO, be watching the stream, wait 30s after the QSO,
and hear Ray "repeat" it on stream. But is that on Ray, or on the other op?
I would argue the S&Per is breaking the rules because that person is using
a non-amateur means to complete the QSO, exactly like if the S&Per texted
W2RE what his exchange is. It's analogous to a gun manufacturer being
liable for deaths caused by their guns. The catch is in the texting case,
W2RE is an accomplice to the S&Pers violation. On a stream, is W2RE an
accomplice in the same way? You would have to say that W2REs purpose for
the stream is to give his S&Pers a second chance, but the evidence doesn't
lead me to that conclusion.
Jeez. I spend way too much time writing emails on this list. I'm sorry to
write a brick of text but this is CQ-contest, and it's the one place on the
world wide web full of other contesters where discussions like these can be
hashed out into action.
-Sterling N0SSC
On Thu, Mar 12, 2020 at 8:36 PM <donovanf@starpower.net> wrote:
> T his video of the RHR Live Stream reveals violations of four General
> Rules for all ARRL Contests:
>
>
> www.youtube.com/watch?v=aydTZN4nLfU
>
>
>
>
> What are the specific violations shown in the video?
>
>
>
> 1. CQs (i.e., soliciting a contact) were relayed via the internet
> 2. Exchanges (a necessary half of every QSO) were relayed via the
> internet
> 3. end-of-QSO solications (i.e., QRZs) were relayed via the internet
> 4. His 14155 frequency was shown multiple times during the live stream
> 5.
>
>
> What specific General Rules for all ARRL Contests were violated?
>
>
>
>
> 3.9. Contacts made through repeaters, digipeaters, or gateways are not
> permitted
>
>
> 1. 3.9.1. This applies to all forms of active relays or repeaters.
> 2. 3.10. The use of non-Amateur Radio means of communication (for
> example, Internet or telephone) to solicit a contact (or contacts) during
> the contest period is not permitted.
> 3. 3.14. In contests where spotting nets are permissible, spotting
> your own station or requesting another station to spot you is not
> permitted.
>
>
> 73
> Frank
> W3LPL
>
>
>
>
>
> 1.
> 2.
> 3.
> 4.
> 5.
> 6.
> 1.
> 7.
> 8.
> 9.
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
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