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Re: [CQ-Contest] cqcontest.net

To: cq-contest@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] cqcontest.net
From: Richard F DiDonna NN3W <richnn3w@verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2016 10:41:26 -0400
List-post: <cq-contest@contesting.com">mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>
This discussion seems to come up every season.

We seem to go from being very 30,000 feet to very granular in our approaches and then swing the other direction.

Some say that getting any information other than from what you can get on the radio is assistance.

Some say that unless you are given the callsign, the frequency, and the mode of operation, nothing is assistance.

Clearly the truth is somewhere in between with the current battle focused on whether contest scoreboards are assistance.

I like scoreboards, they give real time information on your competition and create fun and excitement. For those of you who rue the loss of "youth" in contesting, the existence of real time scoreboards actually has an appeal to contesters of a younger generation.

That being said, with the right information, I can very easily see how getting information for a scoreboard (as long as it is detailed breakdown information) could be assistance. For example, for USA hams in marginal sunspot years, when the first morning of a 48 hour contest hits, real internal struggles brew amongst SO entrants as to if and when to move to 15 or 10. If you see a competitor has suddenly started racking up QSOs on 10 meters while you are on 20 or 15, you've clearly had information brought to your attention that may indeed modify your behavior. No, you didn't receive information on specific QSOs or callsigns, but your behavior has changed because you are now thinking that someone else is beating you to the punch. Some would call that assistance; others would not.

How about this: the technology adherents would say that unless you are given specific information on callsigns AND frequency, there is no assistance. Fine, how about just callsigns? I can see a skimmer being modified to simply post what callsigns are active on a band. You have to find them, but you've been alerted that a band is open. That's a big benefit in low sunspot years. Conversely, you could use the same technology on 160 when folks go to 160 at the top of the hour.

See where this is going???

My assessment of what constitutes assistance would be information that gives you data concerning specific callsigns OR frequencies OR provides information regarding the operating patterns of other operators.

I mention these items because I believe the definitions of "not connected" reach absurd levels. I have no problems with using the Internet to look at www.weather.com to see if a storm is coming or using Spaceweather to look at where the auroral oval is situated. I have no problems watching TV during a game and recognizing that on Sweepstakes Sunday, the rates are about to tank because its 12:55 pm and the first football games of the day are about to kick off.

What I think makes one assisted are discrete sets of information that cause you to dramatically alter your operating behavior (packet spots, recognizing your competitor went fishing on 10 meters, etc.). I feel that WWV is generalized enough that it affects you generally, but you're not likely to make a split band change because of it.


73 Rich NN3W

On 4/5/2016 8:25 AM, Paul O'Kane wrote:
On 05/04/2016 11:54, Pete Smith N4ZR wrote:

Sorry, Ron, but I totally disagree. If it doesn't *assist* someone to watch a scoreboard without band breakdown information (and it doesn't), then it is not *assistance*.

We're going round in circles here with everyone
interpreting "assist", "assistance" and "Assisted"
as they, personally, think it should be defined.

All relevant technology assists.

The main difference between the "Assisted" and
"Unassisted" categories has always been whether you
connect to external networks to improve your score
or gain a competitive advantage.

That's why, IMHO, the categories should change to
Connected and Unconnected.  That would appear to
remove most uncertainty and ambiguity.

  * You use the cluster - you're Connected.
  * You use the RBN - you're Connected.
  * You use real-time scoreboards, or any other
    networked technology, to influence or
    modify your strategy - you're Connected.

It's really simple - you're either Connected or
Unconnected.

I know and accept that local decoders and skimmer-
like technology would continue to be "Connected".
That's why I referred to "the main difference"
above.

73,
Paul EI5DI


















73, Pete N4ZR
Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
<http://N1MM.hamdocs.com>. Check
out the Reverse Beacon Network at
<http://reversebeacon.net>, now
spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
For spots, please use your favorite
"retail" DX cluster.

On 4/5/2016 12:52 AM, Fco. Luis Delgadillo wrote:


Enviado desde mi Huawei de Telcel
Ron
A couple of questions:

Have you tried yourself the live scoreboard.

The Best way to finding out, is perhaps, if you try the scoreboard and then have an informed opinion - to discern facts from gut feelings?

-------- Mensaje original --------
Asunto: Re: [CQ-Contest] cqcontest.net
De: Ron Notarius W3WN
Para: 'Pete Smith N4ZR' ,'CQ Contest'
CC:


    But here's the thing Pete.



    When you receive that information. how did you get it? Where did
    it come
from? You said yourself. "You must decide to post your score" and what
    other information is to be posted for use by other operators.



    So ultimately, the answer is. it came from other operators who are
    posting
    that information. How is that not assisted?



    Look, I don't have a problem with the scoreboard or similar
    exchanges of
    information. I'm not saying that the software that provides the
    capability
    should be disabled.



    Just please don't tell me that it's not "assisted" and using it
    doesn't put
    you into an Assisted or equivalent operating category. It is. (Or
    to put
    it in the vernacular, don't spill a drink on my slacks and then
    tell me it's
    raining.)



    Sometimes I operate Single Op/Assisted. Sometimes I don't. The
    reasons why
    vary depending on the event in question and how I am choosing to
    approach
    it. I'm comfortable with either category these days. I just don't
    pretend
    one is the other. And I don't ask that the line between them be
    blurred.



    Either you are assisted. or you aren't. It is that simple.



    73, ron w3wn



    _____

    From: Pete Smith N4ZR [mailto:n4zr@contesting.com]
    Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 4:01 PM
    To: Ron Notarius W3WN; CQ Contest
    Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] cqcontest.net



    Ron, at least in the case of cqcontest.net and users of MM+, this
    isn't
true. You must decideB to post your score, and you can decide (in MM+) whether or not to include a band breakdown.B Without band information,
    access to this resource is nothing but fun, and should not be
    considered
assistance.B Perhaps the sponsors could voluntarily disable the band
    breakdown display during contest weekends, and the whole issue
    would go
    away.



    73, Pete N4ZR
    Download the new N1MM Logger+ at
    . Check
    out the Reverse Beacon Network at
    , now
    spotting RTTY activity worldwide.
    For spots, please use your favorite
    "retail" DX cluster.

    On 4/4/2016 8:16 AM, Ron Notarius W3WN wrote:

    ...The scoreboard is directly based on spotting information.
    Therefore,
    information derived from it is (IMHO) assistance for the purposes
    of most
    contests that recognize this category.





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