In the most straightforward scenario, what you are proposing is a rule
change to Sweepstakes and the 160 Meter Contest to change the
traditional multiplier structure from "RAC Sections" to the hybrid list
of provinces and sections.
The person with whom you should be talking about the proposal is the RAC
representative on the ARRL's Contest Advisory Committee, Sam Ferris
VE5SF (ve5sf@sasktel.net). There is a process involved, as you might
imagine :-) It is not speedy and will take at least two consecutive
board committee meetings and a discussion period before any resolution
is possible. And there is no guarantee anyone will agree with you but
that is the goose through which the issue must pass. You might wish to
evaluate this against your expected longevity before starting the
journey! I assure you that it will take more than a phone call.
The other option is to persuade the RAC to create four new sections (NB,
NS, PEI, and NL-LAB) in which case the ARRL will be happy to count them
as multipliers. Perhaps there is some administrative trompe l'oeil that
would create the sections but then treat them internally as a single
"super-section" for convenience. Whatever... I'm sure there is a
semi-interminable process for that, too :-)
73, Ward N0AX
On 10/30/2014 5:48 PM, Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA wrote:
Ward,
Thanks for your always very well thought out, reasonable and
consistently entertaining emails. It brings a smile to my face quite
honestly, to see an email from you in my inbox (even if I am hassling
you for something- OK, we won’t go there_)
I just replied to Dave K1ZZ and apologized for my blunder calling the
NCJ QSO Parties and Sprints “ARRL Sponsored”…correctly they are ARRL
published but not sponsored. My bad. I probably should’ve realized
that, but all this MAR business has me slightly on the defensive.
(hi). I am taking a beating by a small select few who seem to think I
am asking for special treatment. Indeed, all we are asking for is to
be treated EQUALLY.
If Rhode Island, Maine and Mass shared a section I would never dream
of even ASKING for a change. I don’t belive in special treatment.
I just ask for our actual real provinces to be treated like every
other ARRL section for the purposes of Sweepstakes and a select few
other contests.
Most contests (and ARRL contests) are on board. Every State in the
Union has at least one section for Sweeps, (and many have various
sections) and yet we continue to be lumped together – why ?
Although I certainly cannot speak for all contesters here in these
heretotherfore metioned netheregions, I think the general sentiment
here in MAR…err, NB, NS and PEI is to leave all the current “sections”
as they are, but to forget they ever heard the term MAR and just make
it NB, NS and PEI. We don’t have a problem with VE3 having 4 sections
or California having however many it is that they have.
The stickler is that no other current States/Provinces have been
lumped together to create a section. New sections keep appearing every
so often (wasn’t WCF not too long ago and then the 4 VE3 sections),
yet all us MCCers continue to be “one section” even though the club
itself is 30 strong and there are many out here that are not in MCC.
We can definitely hold our own. VY2ZM, VE9HF, VE1OP, VE1RGB, VE1ZA,
VY2LI, VE9ML, myself , small pistol VE9AA and many to name only a
few. I am sure all those calls are quite familiar to those reading this.
ND, VY0/VE8 or EB are sections with less representations by a long shot.
Your list looks perfect to me.
Who do I send a quarter to so a phone call can take place between W1
and VE4 to even consider our most humble and long overdue request?
Mike VE9AA
Mike, Coreen & Corey
Keswick Ridge, NB
*From:*Ward Silver [mailto:hwardsil@gmail.com]
*Sent:* October 30, 2014 7:27 PM
*To:* Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA; 'Cary Rubenfeld'; 'Ed Richardson';
fdavis@nfld.net; garybartlett@accesswave.ca; k5zd@cqww.com;
kx9x@arrl.org; k1ar@contesting.com
*Cc:* 'Bill Lester'; 'JP LeBlanc'; n2ic@arrl.net; Richard Ferch;
ve1dt@infinichron.com; 'Peter Csanky'; 'Phil Irons'; 'Rick VE9HF
Williams'; ve1js@ns.sympatico.ca; Ve4baw@rac.ca; 'Rick Williams'
*Subject:* Re: FW: [CQ-Contest] Move to disband MAR section in Canada
(for contesting)
Hi Mike,
Point of order - the ARRL does not sponsor any of the NCJ contests.
The ARRL publishes NCJ but it is a relatively independent entity (not
a DXCC entity) and makes its own rules.
I looked at the NCJ Sprint rules (http://ncjweb.com/Sprint-Rules.pdf)
and multipliers for Canada are first described in Scoring Rule 10 as
"provinces" but the multiplier list then proceeds to combine all five
of the Maritime prefixes (VE1/9/VY2/VO1/VO2) into a group which is
really a section. Perhaps that can be fixed - I'll drop the editors a
note.
As to the ARRL contests, there are only two that use the MAR section
as a multiplier (Sweepstakes and 160 Meters) based on RAC sections.
Field Day does, as well, but "it's not a contest" :-) All remaining
ARRL contests use provinces more or less correctly. True that the
ARRL does not have a consistent policy across contests for counting
Canadian multipliers but it is pretty consistent in applying a
specific contest's rules.
If the rules of Sweepstakes were changed to count Canadian provinces,
then the four Ontario sections would then have to be re-combined into
a single VE3 multiplier. I'm sure the Ontarians would not be
pleased. And the three northern provinces (Yukon, Northwest
Territories, and Nunavut) would also have to be split up and counted
separately. Given the lack of VE8 and VYØ stations, I'm sure the
collectors of Clean Sweep mugs would not be pleased, either :-)
Am I correct in ascertaining that what you're really asking for is a
Canadian multiplier list neither entirely section nor province, but
rather a hybrid: VE1, VE9, VY2, VO1, VO2, VE2, VE3-ONN, VE3-ONE,
VE3-ONS, VE3-GTA, VE4, VE5, VE6, VE7, and NT (VY1-VE8-VYØ). What do
we call them - secvinces, proctions, or what?
I have no power to effect any of this - I just want to understand what
you and fellow Mari-you-know-whatters are actually asking for in the
grand scheme of things.
73, Ward N0AX
On 10/30/2014 4:58 PM, Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA wrote:
The ARRL sponsored NCJ sprints require MAR, whereas the ARRL NCJ
NA QSO parties allow Provinces.
Some ARRL contests require MAR, whereas some require NB, NS &
PEI. There seems to be little in the way of consistency.
Thankfully, the overwhelming majority of worldwide contests,
including 90% of state run QSO parties allow “NB, NS or PEI.”
(The California QSO party being the holdout)…..folks are usually
tickled when they work VE9 for a new mult.
The continuous staunch retort from (my good friends at) the ARRL
seems to say “We follow RAC sections”, and apparently that’s
that-end of discussion. . …however if you look down the list of
ARRL contests very carefully, you’ll see only a percentage of them
do. (50%?) I don’t know – I would have to count them. Does it
matter if I said 40% or 65% really?
Even the hugely popular RAC contests here at home say “send your
province”……I have sent “NB” in every Canada Day or Canada Winter
contest that I have entered since “RAC” was the CARF. I live in
NB not a fictitious “Maritime Province”.
By saying “we follow RAC”……no, you really don’t. You only follow
RAC sections for **S-O-M-E* *of the ARRL sponsored contests. ( I
reckon not even most of them)
I still also stand by the fact that no other States or Provinces
are lumped together with other States or Provinces to create a
section. (DC is the exception, but it is not a State ) I have
new information given to me today that once upon a time Georgia,
SC and Cuba (of all places) was a section, but that must surely
been before I was born, or at least the Bay of Pigs affair.
Hey, I don’t expect anyone to jump right up and change things
overnight, but look, I’ve been a VE9 for 21 years (and a ham much
longer than that). I am not CURRENTLY a RAC member, but have been
in the past. I was even a volunteer for the RAC VHF frequency
committee for VE3DS and certainly do my part to represent VE9
(NB) in the RAC contests out of an unwritten devotion to RAC even
though admittedly they are not my favorite contests.
Usually I feel my voice is never heard and over time I will let my
RAC membership lapse.
All I am saying is that (for whatever reason) we have multiple
sections in Ontario and every other Province has their own
section. Isn’t it time for the ARRL to get onboard with 95% of
other worldwide contests and recognize that it’s time to recognize
that ALL contests under the ARRL banner should treat us equally
out here?
It sure would be nice to hear from Geoff Bowden on this issue. I
have RAC folks (VE9MY and VY2LI) who’ve heard our concerns. We
have RAC representation in every province including NB, NS and PEI
(and Newfoundland/Labrador). I am not entirely certain where they
stand, but if it takes someone from RAC to initiate a change or
someone from the ARRL like N3KN or K1ZZ to pick up the phone and
call Manitoba and speak with VE4BAW, to see what needs to be done
I’d gladly pay the long distance charges. I see people at ARRL
and RAC nodding, but nobody is even CONSIDERING our request and
nobody is even talking.
Thanks for your time.
Mike VE9AA “NB”
Mike, Coreen & Corey
Keswick Ridge, NB
*From:*Gerry Hull [mailto:gerry@yccc.org]
*Sent:* October 30, 2014 4:31 PM
*To:* Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA
*Cc:* CQ-Contest; ve5sf@rac.ca <mailto:ve5sf@rac.ca>
*Subject:* Re: [CQ-Contest] Move to disband MAR section in Canada
(for contesting)
As a ex-pat Maritimer, I'd agree, from a contest perspective, it
would be wonderful to have the individual provinces as multipliers.
I'd hazard to guess, though, that the decision that drove Ontario
to have separate sections was not driven by contesting, but by the
size of the amateur population and administrative needs.
I'd say that boycotting contests that use MAR as the multiplier
will hurt your cause -- IF those in power were to consider contest
activity one of the
factors in breaking up MAR into provinces, boycotting current
contests would definitely hurt!
So, count me in support of the effort, but let me counsel you to
PARTICIPATE in ARRL contests!
Here's hoping I work a bunch of MARs in SS CW -- I'll be VE1RM/3
or CG1RM/3 from ONE. (Ottawa is a closer drive than even St. John!)
73, Gerry W1VE
Also: VE1RM, VY2CDX, VE9XDX, VO1WIN
On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 4:09 PM, Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA
<ve9aa@nbnet.nb.ca <mailto:ve9aa@nbnet.nb.ca>> wrote:
The following is from Al, VA1MM but I 100% support him. See my
own (VE9AA)
comments below his:
VA1MM:
A group of us contesters here in the "MAR" section feel the time
has come to
announce the end of the MAR section in not only ARRL contests but all
contests. When our Department of Communications (now Industry Canada)
granted us separate prefixes for New Brunswick (VE9), Nova Scotia
(VE1) and
Prince Edward Island (VY2), they recognized they we were distinct
Provinces
with enough Amateur Radio operators to support a distinct call
sign. And as
multipliers go, why wouldn't you want to have three new districts
to work
when multiplied by six bands you have a substantial increase in
your scores.
We have tried to weigh the pros and cons, the only con would be
the contest
software not keeping up with the change or the operator not
downloading the
newest version, but do we wait forever? Ontario (VE3) lead the way
with
their divisional split, now it's time for the Maritimes to be
recognized as
NS, NB and PEI
Thank-you, Al VA1MM/ VE1AWP (NS) Maritime Contest Club Member
-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.
VE9AA, Mike says:
I've been moaning and groaning about this very thing for years and
years.
SOME ARRL contests force us to send MAR (a very antiquated
section) and some
permit us to send NB, NS and PEI (the provinces where we are)
Meanwhile, places like Ontario recently get 4 (count them) FOUR
sections?
What the??? Do we not exist out here or what????
What if we were to combine RI, DE and ME? Who in W1 would go for that
section>? \RIDEME\
Prior to 1993, all NB, NS and PEI's were VE1's...*BUT*, News
Flash> In 1993
us "VE1's" all got NEW distinct callsign prefixes
ie: NB=VE9, NS=VE1 and PEI=VY2...there are very few left that kept
their
original VE1 calls in NB or PEI. (the NS guys got to keep their
VE1's)...
We are distinct provinces, (have been for eons.) just as Maine,
Rhode Island
and Delaware are. Maybe it made sense in the old days or whatever
to have
us as one section as there are fewer hams here (and we were all
VE1's) , but
I think you'll see as a fellow member of MCC also, that we are well
represented these days. As a point of interest, there are so many
VE1's that
they also have a VA1 prefix to choose from. If it's based on
activity (I
know it's not) there are certainly ARRL and RAC sections with less
activity
than NB, NS and PEI.
Even in the RAC contests we send "NB,NS and PE" so saying you
"follow RAC"
does not hold water, nor does it even make sense 2+ decades later.
I normally try to boycott most contests that force us to send
"MAR" as a
silent protest. Probably nobody notices but there are others like
me out
here.
Get with the times ARRL, CQP and a very select few others.
I don't know who's attention we need to get, but help us out.
Rattle some
chains. Send emails to those you know,
"RAC" is not contest oriented. Why we have to follow that
structure (but
only for some contests) is beyond me !?!?
Respectfully,
Mike VE9AA (proudly in NB)
Mike, Coreen & Corey
Keswick Ridge, NB
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