I didn't realize this one was sent to the reflector or I would have
answered it to there.
>
> Let's not mix apples and oranges here.
>
> The issue of self spotting is related to contests not general
operating.
> Participants claiming to be unassisted yet they get spotted repeatedly
by
> bogus calls all from the same IP and ISP seems pretty fishy to me.
>
> I don't see K1TTT spotting himself in any of the examples provided.
>
> I know that anyone that is into 6m is appreciative of anyone alerting
the
> world to a 6m opening.
>
> I have no clue what is meant by half spotting. We the callsigns ???
Out
> to
> protect the innocent? If not maybe he is hoping that people will
actually
> take the time to find out who the station is on the frequency before
> hitting
> the enter button.
Those half spots with ???, as I explained in my direct reply to nick,
are obviously non-contest and are spots where either I couldn't copy the
complete call, or it was a ragchew or something where they weren't
giving a call very often and I just didn't want to wait around after I
figured out where they were. I usually give at least enough for someone
who is interested in the country or call area (on 6m) to figure out what
is going on.
>
> The use of packet by an unassisted participant is not allowed either
> receiving or transmitting. If a multiop posts himself does anyone
care or
> an assisted participant? Is that any different than calling people on
the
> telephone or emailing people ahead of the contest and making scheds?
Actually, unsassitted ops are allowed to send spots in all the contests
I know of, as long as they don't spot themselves and don't receive the
spots. Assisted or Multi-ops are not allowed to spot themselves in most
contests but are allowed to receive spots. And arranging contacts by
non-amateur means during the contest is, or at least has been, different
than making skeds before the contest.
>
>
> Mike
> W0MU
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com
> [mailto:cq-contest-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of nick
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 10:31 PM
> To: cq-contest@contesting.com
> Subject: [CQ-Contest] Re: self-spotting
>
> David,
>
> it is obvious that all 4 spots are from the same person, who ever he
may
> be.
> The fact we share same ISP means nothing. 4 fake spots on 100K Q's is
not
> bad; and even more important - definitely not a "proof" of
selfspotting.
> Personally I don't care; however it's people like yourself who started
all
> this spotting mambo jumbo business in first place and who endlessly
flood
> clusters with thousands of "genuine" yet useless spots in each and
every
> contest.
>
> Even genuine spotting does not make any sense at all.
> If you've just worked a new multiplier, why in the world would you
want
> all
> your locals, direct competitors, to know that? So they can work him
too?
>
> And could you please explain this "half-spotting" : is there anyone,
> anywhere who is actually benefiting from YOUR spots:
>
> K1TTT 28515.0 KP4??? too fast spanish phonetics 2218 05
Feb
> 2003
> K1TTT 50125.0 KF4??? >fn32 1504 18
May
> 2003
> K1TTT 50125.0 W4??? el86>fn32 1734 17
May
> 2003
> K1TTT 50125.0 W5? em40 > fn32 1733 20
May
> 2003
> K1TTT 50125.0 WB2???/M el96>fn32 1858 20
May
> 2003
> K1TTT 28460.0 ZW??? sa-042 2105 23
May
> 2003
> K1TTT 50125.0 VE2TH? au 1918 29
May
> 2003
> K1TTT 50140.0 W8??? en91 > fn32 au 1945 29
May
> 2003
> K1TTT 50125.0 W7??? cm98>fn32 weak 1607 30
May
> 2003
> K1TTT 50170.0 F6??? cq north america 1843 06
Jun
> 2003
> K1TTT 50125.0 K9??? 1607 07
Jun
> 2003
> K1TTT 28480.0 CX??? 2154 16
Jun
> 2003
> K1TTT 28494.7 PP8MA?? 2204 16
Jun
> 2003
> K1TTT 50125.0 KF4??? with roger beep?? 1236 03
Jul
> 2003
> K1TTT 50130.0 W5/W4??? em52>fn32 faded now 1319 28
Jul
> 2003
> K1TTT 50130.0 W4??? ragchewing 1255 10
Aug
> 2003
> K1TTT 28480.9 IV3RA? 1339 12
Oct
> 2003
> K1TTT 28470.0 HC5T? 1455 01
Nov
> 2003
> K1TTT 28085.3 DJ5?? rtty DL1308 08
Nov
> 2003
> K1TTT 28375.0 WB7??? id K2249 20
Dec
> 2003
> K1TTT 28610.0 IZ2??? in italian in qso I1316 29
Dec
> 2003
> etc etc ....
>
> 73, Nick VK1AA
> www.qsl.net/vk1aa
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <k1ttt@arrl.net>
> To: "Nick" <nick@clockmaker.com.au>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 5:39 AM
> Subject: Re: self-spotting
>
>
> K1TTT:
> > that doesn't explain how the different calls all spotted vk1aa/4
from
> the
> > same ip address. especially how a japanese call happened to be
using
> the
> > same isp, let alone the exact ip address. the only way i know for
this
> to
> > happen is if that machine is an open web proxy, but that is less
likely
> > because the only spots from there were for vk1aa/4, a random
sampling of
> > spots from a proxy like that should show a distribution of spots
from
> > multiple users for a variety of stations.
> >
> > >
----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > 27 09:42 7N4OFG-@: 28095 VK1AA/4
203.58.1.12
> > > 27 08:41 VK2BL-@: 14108.7 VK1AA/4
203.58.1.12
> > > 27 16:48 VK2BL-@: 7024 VK1AA/4
203.58.1.12
> > > 27 17:17 VK2JBL-@: 7031 VK1AA/4
203.58.1.12
> > >
> > > an oops? spotted fw/ with their own call from the same ip?
> > > 28 04:53 VK1AA-@: 21250 FW/AC4LN
203.58.1.12
> > >
> > > inetnum: 203.58.0.0 - 203.58.31.255
> > > descr: Total Peripherals Group
> > > descr: North Ryde
> > > descr: NSW 2113
> > > country: AU
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi David K1TTT,
> > > just stumbled upon your "self-spotting" post where you've
mentioned my
> > > call too.
> > >
> > > 1. I've made well over 100.000's since 1997 operating as VK9LX,
> > > VK9LX/9, VK9WI, H40XX, H44XX, VK1AA/2 and VK1AA/4
> > >
> > > 2. The only spot I've ever posted is for FW/AC4LN on 28 Sep 2003
> > > from my home QTH in Sydney after being specifically asked to do
so.
> > > TPG (North Ryde, Sydney)is major internet service provider
covering
> > > city of 5 million.
> > >
> > > 3. VK1AA/4 is my contest station, located 1400km north
> > > of Sydney in sugar cane fields of central Queensland.
> > > From over there, getting even half decent int. access is rather
> tricky.
> > >
> > > 4. I usually get fair bit of "help" from people who believe
> > > that spotting actually works. Personally, I hate both spotting and
> > > self-spotting. I am very old fashioned - I either call cq or S+P
> > > and have no time to waste on cluster.
> > >
> > > 5. I am not subscribed to contesting.com mailing list
> > > therefore I would appreciate should you forward this message to
the
> > > list members.
> > >
> > > Thank you for your help and CU in the contest
> > >
> > > 73 Nick Hacko, VK1AA
> > > www.qsl.net/vk1aa
> > >
> > >
David Robbins K1TTT
e-mail: mailto:k1ttt@arrl.net
web: http://www.k1ttt.net
AR-Cluster node: 145.69MHz or telnet://dxc.k1ttt.net
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