>From jcrovell Tue Dec 03 11:40 EST 1996 remote from 580howard
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>From: "John Crovelli" <jcrovell@580howard>
To: "cq-contest" <cq-contest@tgv.com>, "WYLIE" <WYLIE@colloquium.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Contesting and the Internet
Date: Tue Dec 3 11:40 0
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GM4FDM said << " Contesting has now become a contest
not of skill in operating, but a contest as to who can pour the greatest
amount of money into a station. Who has the greatest amount of bucks can
win! Skill comes a long way second. Gee, if you cannot operate from your
own backyard, just go down to the Carribean... It is a well known fact that
there are only about half a dozen locations in the World where you can win
CQWW? ">>
Further you say <<"Why spend money in going to Aruba, when you could pretend
you are there and operate an Aruba station from your own home.">>
Well Tom, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I could not disagree
with you more.
At the heart of Radiosporting is OPERATOR SKILL. Proficiency in this sport
is developed over time....it comes more quickly for some than others. I
personnally have spent the past 37 years developing my abilities and still
find lots of room for improvement. Skill is not just how fast you
send/speak, how accurately you copy and log, but also includes a great
wealth of knowledge about propagation, callsigns, band selection, station
construction and maintenance, and a host of other items that in some large
or small way contibute to the final score. You don't learn this stuff
overnight! And given the dynamic nature of radiowaves, what knowledge you
apply at any given point in time must change to meet current operating
conditions. Now, does this sound simple? Do you really think that just
anyone who happens to have lots of money can be a winner? I think NOT.
For some of us, radiosporting is our primary focus in Amateur Radio. We
devote a significant amount of our time to planning/preparing for the next
contest, whether it be CQWW, ARRL DX, Sweepstakes, WPX, IARU, Field Day,
whatever. There are so many variables, so many ideas, so many options, it
is difficult to find the ideal solution. I'll use CQWW as an example. If
you really want to be a competitive on a world-wide scale in this event,
and make the top 5, it is no secret you really have two choices, you operate
from northern Africa or northern South America. Being the optimum distance
from Europe and North America is essential for rate and mults on multiple
bands. So then its a matter of finding or building a station in one of
these areas. Like any project undertaken thousands of miles from home, this
is a real challenge. Local contacts must be established, equipment procured
and shipped, licenses obtained, and so forth.
Does this take a lot of money? It can, but it with a little effort it can
be done at quite reasonable cost. For instance, my station on Aruba. It is
essential you establish local contacts and I have been very fortunate to
have had a succession of accomodating locals over the past 11 years on
Aruba. The tower and rotor were obtained for FREE, in exchange for removal
from another ham's yard in PA. The only expense was for some paint and
ocean freight shipping (about $400). The antennas were purchased new, a
reasonable expense, and then shipped airfreight (a luxury expense for the
sake of undamaged delivery at $150). Site preparation (concrete base and 8
foot tall concrete guy posts) cost $200. Erection of tower and antennas,
Zero $$ (thanks to CT1BOH and my Aruban host Humphrey for their help).
Station equipment (TS930, Alpha 87A) are brought to the island for each
event. The xcvr, laptop computer, and the power xformer from the amplifier
are handcarried (try it sometime, it is great fun putting all this stuff
thru airport xray machines and climbing aircraft onramps - does wonders for
the lower back). Coax was purchased new and carried down in luggage.
Preamp, antenna switches, interconnect cables, etc. are obtained at
hamfests for pennies on the dollar. Estimate of total station cost with
antennas (monobanders 40-10): about $1,750. Divide this amount by 2, since
I share the cost and operating from this QTH with K4UEE/P40R and you have
$875 invested. When you spread this capital outlay over many years it is
truely insignificant. Extravagent, hardly, but effective, definitely.
Station design is the product of years of experience! It is the application
of knowledge and expertise, especially in tropic environments where damage
from salt air and winds are prevalent. Antenna system design is limited by
what you have to work with. How to optimize, being as loud as you can given
the existing circomstances is really the issue. Another freebee but very
thought prevoking and time consuming. But time is free, right?
OK, lets look at other costs. Airline tickets - prices have remained pretty
stable over the years at about $390 round trip. LIving expenses, $30 to
$100 per nite depending on your tastes. No different than a vacation
anywhere else. Or don't you go on vacations?
Contest operation. The operator who makes the most contacts in the most
zones and the most countries on the most bands wins. The SKILL is to chose
the right band at the right time to maximize rate and mults. Being loud is
important but means very little if you don't properly position your signal
on the spectrum. Trying to do this over a 48 hour window with propagation
conditions always changing and you see it is an extremely complex problem
and probably in the final result is a matter of some luck. These elements
are totally operator dependent and have nothing to do with the amount of
money in your pocket. Knowing where to be when, whether call CQ or search
for hunt mults, moving stations band to band, etc. is the product of
experience which cannot be purchased at any price.
Tom, bottom line, you don't know what the hell you are talking about, and
some of us are quite offended at your comments. I hope by now you might be
considering an alternative view of this sport and what it takes to be
successful.
73,
John, W2GD/P40W
----------
From: WYLIE
To: cq-contest
Subject: Contesting and the Internet
The more I dabble into the Internet the more I worry about the future of
Contesting. Things used to be really simple in the old days. You just got
hold of the mike and hollered CQ CONTEST and started scribing with the
perncil. Then, along came personal computers and simple logging programs.
Next came dupe checking. Bigger, faster, programms quickly followed.
Along came the packet cluster. No sooner arrived than interconnected via
computer and integrated into station. About the same time, rig and rotator
control arrived on the scene. Up until now, everything has been almost
inevitable in the ever increasing level of technology in the Amateur
station. Technology has allowed the personal skill of the operator to be
honed into excellence. Even at this point in the sun spot cycle, records
are being broken.
Now, I am looking seriously at the Internet. Already we have arguements
and rules about interconnects between the Internet and the Contest Station.
Stations in the outback might argue that due to lack of local packet
cluster, there is no reason why they should not connect to an Internet
Cluster via telnet or whatever.
However, WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE? Contesting has now become a contest
not of skill in operating, but a contest as to who can pour the greatest
amount of money into a station. Who has the greatest amount of bucks can
win! Skill comes a long way second. Gee, if you cannot operate from your
own backyard, just go down to the Carribean... It is a well known fact that
there are only about half a dozen locations in the World where you can win
CQWW?
I would like to draw a firm line under Internet. Just by dabbling into the
Web and looking at various facilities and programms that are CURRENTLY
available, not to mention the future, it seems just a matter of time before
someone is caught cheating, by connecting via the Internet to another
location in the World. With telnet, real audio, so on and so forth, it is
just a matter of time until you can seriously operate a remote transmitter
anywhere in the world via your own home PC. You wont
even need your own radio. At midnight zulu when the band is closed in
Europe, why not operate via a remote station in California, and when
propogation starts to go from there, QSY to Singapore or where ever. Why
spend money in going to Aruba, when you could pretend you are there and
operate an Aruba station from your own home.........Guys are operating their
HF rigs via 2m links, why not via an Internet link? IT IS ONLY A MATTER
OF TIME.
Internet and ham radio should be kept separate and NO inter connection
should be made or allowed. Jeez, I sometimes worry about packet!
Your views please gentlemen!
de Tom - GM4FDM
>GB7SDX
@GB7SAN
wylie@colloquium.co.uk
>From george@epix.net (George C. Cook) Tue Dec 3 16:51:12 1996
From: george@epix.net (George C. Cook) (George C. Cook)
Subject: So how do the "All Wire" guys succeed?
Message-ID: <1.5.4.16.19961206115359.08472cd4@epix.net>
At 04:31 PM 12/3/96 +0000, you wrote:
>
>Wouldn=B4t it be great to hear how some of the all-wire guys
>do it? Aside from operating skills, exactly what kind of
>wire antennas are they using? Where and how are they located
>(QTH, site/height/ground description)? RF power?
>73 de Kristinn, TF3KX (kiddi@marel.is)
I think this is a fair question really so here is my station set up
Mind you that I now also have several Quad antennas that I guess when new
started there life as comercial antennas untill I re-designed them
My elevation is 1300 feet in Pensylvania on the East side Farly near the NJ
border. I have extremely poor=20
ground conductivity mainly comprised of slate and shale. Across the rear of
my land I have a major
trunk line for the power company.
I have an inverted L for 160 meters which I am still working on as it sits
it is a good antenna but not great
But I will keep working on it. Eventual plans are to have 2 of them or
maybe 4 and then use them in a phased
array network so I can get some directionality out of it.
For 80 meters I have a flat top wire yaggi aimed at europe it is VERY good
I rarely have any trouble with
pileups. I also have an inverted Vee Yaggi aimed at the Carribien it is
Good to Very good. I think that the=20
front to side is not as nice as the flat top though. The yaggis are at
about 70' I also have a horizontal loop at about 20 feet that I use for
stateside contacts it is a Fair antenna I get good signal reports but it
doesn't hear very well.
For 40 I have a dipole at 60' it is fair but noisey. I also have a delta
loop in an E/W configuration. It is Good but
I am going to add a director to it for increased gain into europe. It is
only at 40'
For 20 I have a stationary Quad into Europe. An Excelent antenna and it was
DIRT cheap. made it up in 4 trees that kind of grew
in a pattern that allowed that. A ground plane at 25' fair antenna but it
ALWAYS works and it only cost $2.00 to make. I also have
a 5 el yaggi (wire) that didn't work very well. I put it on a 60 foot boom
and well it is awefully tight for an antenna that you=20
cannot rotate. It is comming down.
15 meters and 10 I have ground planes that I made from stainless steel whips
they work pretty good for what they are.
I typically run full power but not always. (1500 watts)
The ONLY thing I ever bought new was a walkie talkie and a 2 meter radio for
the car. ALL of my HF gear is been gotten 2nd hand and I=20
usually buy 1 big ticket item each year that I save up all year for. This
year I would like to replace my rig.
Good luck
GC
*********************************************
*George Cook.....AA3JU.....AKA "The Ratman" *
*george@epix.net.....AA3JU@W3PYF *
*http://www.epix.net/~george *
* *
*Proudly Frankford Radio Club......... *
*.......Proficiency Through Competiton. *
*"Not just words but a way of life" *
*********************************************
>From Fatchett.Mike@tci.com (Fatchett, Mike) Tue Dec 3 16:55:24 1996
From: Fatchett.Mike@tci.com (Fatchett, Mike) (Fatchett, Mike)
Subject: So how do the "All Wire" guys succeed?
Message-ID:
<01EB432A45B7C005*/c=us/admd=attmail/prmd=tci/o=mailhub/ou=msmaildos/s=Fatchett/g=Mike/@MHS>
What is the definition of success?
I measure my success on the amount of fun and enjoyment I receive. I set
goals against similarly equipped stations in my area. I try to pick
single bands that I have better antennas on or contest that cater to my
setup.
In my more active years I had two towers. The 40ft tower included a TH7
and a 40-2CD. The 80ft tower included a 4 ele beam on 15 and 3 ele beam
on 20 and a 2 or 3 ele beam on 40. For 80 I used a dipole on the big
tower. I added a 10m antenna when needed. I felt I was competitive for
domestic contests and competitive for region on 15m for DX contests.
At the time I was using a TS-930 and an Alpha 76PA.
Mike
W0MU
>From lstrain@akarea.alaska.ihs.gov (Larry Strain) Tue Dec 3 17:37:03 1996
From: lstrain@akarea.alaska.ihs.gov (Larry Strain) (Larry Strain)
Subject: How much do you have to spend to have fun?
Message-ID: <9612031737.AA54160@akarea.alaska.ihs.gov>
I like to compare contesting to fishing. There is a lot in common, even to
comparing the amount you spend on equipment.
I know one guy who always has the latest in fishing gear and boats. He
spends about $1,000 a year on equipment, has a $12,000 boat and a $35,000
Landcruiser to haul it around as well as an expensive cabin on the lake.
Another guy I know has a $39.95 K-mart rod and reel, a wooden jon-boat he
bought for $50 and a 1976 Chevy pickup with a camper on the back. I wonder
who has the most fun. I know who catches the biggest fish!
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