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Re: [Amps] 12V IM3

To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] 12V IM3
From: "Roger (K8RI)" <k8ri@rogerhalstead.com>
Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 20:25:54 -0400
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>


I know, which is one of the reasons I used it. The CPI (inflation) is a fictitious number just like unemployment.

Electronics except for specialty items has benefited from scale. That Collins station was nearly a half the average years wages and it only did two things, but it did them very well with an exceptionally clean signal. My first computer if scaled to today's memory size and CPU speed would cost over 20 million dollars without resorting to the CPI and my house isn't large enough to house all the chips. Imagine recreating today's "super rigs" using tubes. The power it would take and the heat it would develop!

As several have pointed out, we try to get the most out of our rigs. As far as I recollect, it's almost alwys been that way, but the shortcomings of tubes being pushed is little compared to solid state being pushed. As Jim pointed out, there are commercial rigs with good IM because the run the finals (and other stages) conservatively. I still believe the IM3 is important for adjacent signals.

When 2 devices are capable of 1500 watts (barely) we can run 4 that would be good for 3,000 watts at 1500 out for a much cleaner signal. There are additional complications, but the basic premise is valid. Yes they cost more, but the protective circuitry becomes much lless critical. You can use more negative feedback while still getting the legal limit out. A much cleaner output as you are moving well away from compression.

The argument comes up that they are less efficient when run that way, but are they if the circuit is designed for 1500 out using devices capable of twice that? But what if they are less efficient? So what? I can get rid of heat a lot easier than fixing a crappy signal. The biggest heat problem is "spreading" the heat from a small spot to one large enough that it can dissipate the heat into air with out losing your hearing.

Computers solved this problem nicely. Remember those little 90 mm high speed, screaming fans of the early days? We now use a pair of side by side 140 mm fans coasting along as they blow air through a radiator. There are several things as hams we can learn from this even if those devices, in their current form are incapable of handling the heat load we are dumping. One is using a medium to transfer the heat somewhere else where we can get rid of it. instead of a copper heat spreader connected directly to a fan cooled heatsink. High powered CPUs which operate at temps only a bit less than power transistors use heat pipes to carry heat to the fan cooled heatsinks, or even water in a closed loop circuit..

We can also learn from industry and use chilled water in a closed loop. Like remoting a noisy 4CX3000 amp, all the noise making stuff is somewhere else. You embed copper tubing carrying chilled water directly in that copper plate heat spreader with or without a fan cooled heatsink for a safety in case the water flow stops. Of course, you can use plain old tap water because we don't care if it's conductive and automatically switch if the chilled water fails

The point with more devices is multifold. Holding a temperature becomes less critical, protection circuits for drive and outout power become more tollerant. IOW that protective circuitry can become a bit more simple. HOWEVER you do have to be careful about condensation.


73

Roger (K8RI)


On 5/22/2015 1:57 PM, Michael Clarson wrote:
Roger: While many of the technical points are valid, using Consumer Price
Index  (CPI) to compare "rig" prices is not realistic. Electronics,
particularly consumer electronics is the outlier -- it does NOT follow the
CPI..For example, a typical TV now is a 42", which goes for $450 in 2015. A
21" RCA color tabletop TV would cost $500 in 1960. Using the CPI, that
would be almost $4000 in today's dollars, BUT, a $450 42" TV (Typical,
today) would cost $56 in 1960 dollars. Its just not fair to use CPI to
compare then and now electronics prices. Too much has changed. I used TVs.
It becomes even more absurd when comparing digital computers!. --Mike,
WV2ZOW

On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 1:28 PM, Ken K6MR <k6mr@outlook.com> wrote:

<whole bunch of snip>

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