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Re: [Amps] SPE 2K RTTY Duty Cycle

To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] SPE 2K RTTY Duty Cycle
From: "Roger (K8RI)" <k8ri@rogerhalstead.com>
Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 08:27:03 -0400
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
On 5/18/2015 12:57 PM, qrv@kd4e.com wrote:
PEP is not the same thing as key-down RTTY by a long shot.

How many switches, feedlines, and antennas, external to the
a
mp can survive 1500
w carrier for long?

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree

It depends on the switches. Most RG-8 size feed lines will handle much more than 1.5 KW continuous. Other than the baluns, many non trap antennas will handle substantially more than the legal limit continuous. Look it up! Tube amps that will handle 1.5 KW out continuous will have an ability to run as much as 2500 to 3 KW PEP, unless computer controlled. Solid state amps are generally heat limited for longer and higher duty cycle modes. SSB is typically 20%, unless overly processed. CW is usually figured at 50%, but with break-in conversations, transmissions are relatively short. Digital and AM are 100%. I know what that does to plate voltage, what does it do to the HV on a SS amp? What's the IM numbers on the SS amp? What does continuous duty modes do to that?

Operating a tube amp meant for the legal limit on 20% duty cycle SSB on 100% digital or AM will likely drag the HV down so it is no longer properly tuned. Many of today's amps are over rated at the legal limit on SSB The tubes, PS and components are all light duty in those amps and trying to get what the manufacturer says they will do, does more than cause the users to complain about short tube life

I think you will find that the Alpha Delta mechanical switches will more than handle 1.5 KW continuous.

A little consideration, research, and asking those who are doing it regularly what they are using, before purchasing the components that follow the amp will likely find components rated well more than 1.5 KW continuous. There are some hams with big home brew amps as well as imported ones that can and do run the legal limit on digital and AM with long transmissions without failures. I assume they might be able to point the way to reliable components. One thing with SO2R and remote switches is the isolation. If the components will handle the power, will they give enough isolation so the second station can operate on the second harmonic through the same switch?

It's more than just handling the power. When I shell out that much money, I want two things. The full legal limit, any mode, no time limit AND an IM3 of 40 db or better. Collins could do an IM-3 well more than 40 db (more like 50) in the 1960s. It's only recently that the solid state rigs have approached that and it's with their top end (expensive) rigs.

The receiver sections have long since passed the useful levels in dynamic range, selectivity, adjacent frequency rejection, and sensitivity far beyond the noise floor on low bands. They are into the bragging rights only realm because these amazing numbers do little when the noise floor is 10X the sensitivity. Ham 10 KHz up or down has an IM-3 of 30 db, and a rig driving the amp using ALC derived power control with a huge leading edge power spike that can easily be heard +/- 50 KHz. Selectivity does little good when your neighbor on the bad has a wide signal that covers your frequency.

The antennas, coax and switches are available to handle the power, and it would help greatly if a number of hams learned how to properly set up the functions of the driving rig to drive an amp and how to tune the amp. There are a number of tetrode amps that are very clean when properly driven and properly tuned. It's the users who have given some of the larger amps a bad rep. Tetrodes do not tune up the same as Triodes. Similar, but different

So, yes, there are many components, connectors, feed lines, switches, and antennas that will handle the legal limit all day long. It's where they cut corners the problems arise.

73

Roger (K8RI)


Especially heating at imperfect and/or marginal contacts
and connections?

I'm seeing estimates of 5 seconds, 10 seconds, and 15 seconds
of 1500w output in RTTY continuous-duty mode - but unlimited
at 1KW.

Most vendors will be cautious about running-at-the-edge as
they know that some Hams will push that margin then blame
them when something breaks.

Question:
Is RTTY so inefficient that one really needs 1500w output?

There are many other keyboard-keyboard digi modes that can
hold a qso under poor conditions at 30-50w.

Just wondering ...

David KD4E

I asked this very question from one of the two SPE vendors at Dayton.
I got very evasive responses until I insisted on a plain and simple
answer. Finally, the vendor stated that if you start at 1500 w out on
RTTY, the power will cut back to 1200 watts after ten seconds. I was
disappointed in his rather defensive posture on the question of
headroom. Yet there was a sign up that said the power out was 2000
PEP CW/SSB.

73, Dennis W0JX



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