Amps
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: [Amps] HV Diodes

To: manfred@ludens.cl, amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] HV Diodes
From: Gerald Williamson via Amps <amps@contesting.com>
Reply-to: TexasRF@aol.com
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2014 12:59:45 -0400
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Seems having a little headroom during a KAPOW event might be a good thing.  
Even with a surge limiting resistor in the B+ the current flow can be quite 
high  and unlike a turn on surge, the current is there until a primary fuse 
blows or  breaker trips.
 
The diode surge rating is based on some limited number of AC cycles, far  
from a continuous rating.
 
73,
Gerald K5GW
 
 
 
In a message dated 10/11/2014 9:37:26 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
manfred@ludens.cl writes:

Dear  all,

I wonder why the diode selection is so totally overblown  here.

Let's assume a pretty big amplifer, solid legal limit, CCS, which  is more 
than 
any ham needs. The power supply might deliver 3500V at 0.8A.  Each diode 
string 
in a bridge rectifier will then see a peak voltage that  might reach 4000V 
in the 
event of line overvoltage, and an average current  of 0.4A at full output. 
The 
current will be very peaky, but rectifier  diodes are rated to take that.

The cheapy 1N4007 diode is rated for  1000V reverse voltage, and 1A 
continuous 
average forward current, when  mounted in a normal way that will allow 
conducting 
about 1W of heat away,  through its leads. Current-wise this diode has all 
the 
safety headroom you  might need. Voltage-wise you need 4 of them in series, 
and 
that's it. For  a bridge rectifier you need 16 of those diodes, which cost 
$0.099 
each at  Digikey, if you buy just those 16. For $1.58 you get all the 
diodes you  
need! Or be generous, use 5 in series in each leg, and spend two bucks on  
them.

I hear some of you cry "and the voltage transients?"  Well,  what 
transients? The 
diode bridge sits right across a big capacitor! Any  voltage transients 
will be 
clamped to the capacitor voltage.

Of  course some of you will now cry "and the current transients?" Sure, any 
 
voltage transients on the power line will translate into current  
transients when 
the filter capacitor clamps the voltage. In addition there  will be a big 
inrush 
current at switch-on, if no step start or slow start  circuit is used. So 
there 
will indeed be some current transients. But how  large can they be? Small 
transformers have so much resistance in their  wire, that just the 
resistance 
would limit the short circuit current to  about ten times the nominal load 
current. Larger transformers like those  used in legal limit amps have 
relatively 
smaller winding resistances, so  that the resistance might limit the 
current to 
20 times the nominal value.  But then there is leakage inductance, which 
also 
reduces the current  transients. So I would not expect such a transformer 
to 
produce an inrush  current stronger than 10 times the nominal current, even 
assuming a zero  impedance power line, which none of us has! So, the inrush 
current with no  step start circuit might be around 11A, considering that a 
transformer for  0.8A output from a capacitor-input filter needs to be 
rated for 
about  1.1A.

And a cheapy 1N4007 has a 35A inrush current rating. More than  three times 
what 
we need.

And how much transient current could we  see during lightning? This is 
harder to 
tell, because such fast, extremely  strong hits are hugely attenuated by 
line 
impedance, and clamped by all  sorts of electronic devices in the homes, so 
that 
the current spike  resulting in your amp's rectifier diodes depends a lot 
on 
those impedance  values. But if such a spike exceeds 35A, it would have to e
xceed 
roughly 350A on the 240V power line feeding the amp, which means that in a  
typical home it would need to far exceed a kiloampere at the service  
input. The 
voltage at that point would need to be VERY high, causing  flashovers 
everywhere 
and thus limiting the transient current into the  home. I would expect the 
final 
transient in the amp's rectifier diodes to  remain well below the 35A 
rating of 
1N4007 diodes. You might see your  house catch fire from the flash-overs 
and the 
molten wire, before those  diodes blow up.

Of course everyone is free to use 1N5408 or 6A10  diodes, at $0.278 and 
$0.368 
respectively at Digikey. And if somebody  wants to use 10 in series in each 
leg, 
who am I to forbid that? But  technically it's pointless. Strings of 4 to 5 
1N4007 diodes in each leg,  properly mounted for decent heat sinking, are 
perfectly safe and  sound.

In my National NCL2000 I use 1N5408 diodes, but that amplifier  has a 
voltage 
doubler, so the diodes work at twice the current, compared  to a bridge 
rectifier. While 1N4007 diodes would still have been operating  within 
ratings, 
the current headroom would have been rather tight. So I  chose the bigger  
diodes.

Manfred

========================
Visit my hobby  homepage!
http://ludens.cl
========================
_______________________________________________
Amps  mailing  list
Amps@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps

_______________________________________________
Amps mailing list
Amps@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>