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Re: [Amps] Amps readers...NOT

To: amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] Amps readers...NOT
From: Herzog <herzog@frontiernet.net>
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:13:38 -0500
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
Who wants the opinions of someone who can't say his subject, and instead 
expects me to read and re-read the same stuff over and over in repeats.
Example follows:  Let the guilty be insulted...K2LB
====================

amps-request@contesting.com wrote:
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> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: I dont accept answers to why did Heath die? (Jim Barber)
>    2. Re: I dont accept answers to why did Heath die? (Frank T Brady)
>    3. Re: HB  amps (Bill, W6WRT)
>    4. Re: I dont accept answers to why did Heath die? (Paul Christensen)
>    5. Re: I dont accept answers to why did Heath die? (Frank T Brady)
>    6. Re: I dont accept answers to why did Heath die? (Frank T Brady)
>    7. Re: I dont accept answers to why did Heath die? (Bill, W6WRT)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:14:31 -0800
> From: Jim Barber <audioguy@charter.net>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] I dont accept answers to why did Heath die?
> To: Frank T Brady <franktbrady@comcast.net>
> Cc: amps@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <4B672817.7060000@charter.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Latency with the Flex may or may not be a problem depending on the PC 
> and the care used to configure it.
> 
> I make no claim to being a CW op, so it would be better to have the 
> discussion with someone that is and has had success with high-speed CW. 
> There are plenty of ops that both have and haven't, and your odds of 
> success will be strongly tilted depending on your PC/OS expertise and 
> attention to detail. No one will deny that the issue is complex.
> 
> Also - improving CW operation has been a priority for the developers in 
> the upcoming software release. Subscribing to the Flex "Edge" reflector 
> will raise your noise floor substantially, but if you're good at 
> separating problem users from real problems you can build a picture of 
> the truth.
> 
> My bottom line on the issue is that if I had been expecting a stellar 
> out-of-box CW experience I would have been disappointed. If I knew then 
> what I know now I'd be "ok" with it and looking forward to the next 
> software release. Your mileage will vary with your expectations.
> 
> HTH,
> 
> 73,
> Jim, N7CXI (Flex 5K owner)
> 
> 
> 
> Frank T Brady wrote:
>> Jim,
>> That's the first I've heard of latency problems.
>> This is why I was hoping to get some discussion going, because K3 and 
>> SDR owners are invariably sold on their eqpt but haven't compared the two.
>> tx and 73
>>
>>
>> Jim Dawson wrote:
>>> I recently became excited about the Flex-5000 but after reading a bunch of 
>>> comments 
>>> about it's poor performance with sending CW because of latency, I have 
>>> cooled  my
>>> enthusiasm.
>>>
>>> Jim - K9DD
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:14:34 -0500
> From: Frank T Brady <franktbrady@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] I dont accept answers to why did Heath die?
> To: amps@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <4B67281A.7080305@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Bill,
> I browsed the WinKey site and it didn't pop right out as to how/why 
> WinKey solves SDR latency.
> Could you expand on that just a little?
> tx frank w0ecs
> 
> 
> Bill, W6WRT wrote:
>> ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
>>
>> On Mon, 1 Feb 2010 12:29:25 -0600, "Jim Dawson"
>> <jdawson@jasystems.com> wrote:
>>
>>   
>>> I recently became excited about the Flex-5000 but after reading a bunch of 
>>> comments 
>>> about it's poor performance with sending CW because of latency, I have 
>>> cooled  my
>>> enthusiasm.
>>>     
>> REPLY:
>>
>> Some Windows programs have the same problem. 
>>
>> One sure cure is to use WinKey if the Flex software supports it. 
>>
>> 73, Bill W6WRT
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>>   
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:15:51 -0800
> From: "Bill, W6WRT" <dezrat1242@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] HB  amps
> To: <amps@contesting.com>
> Message-ID: <51aem51ge0escr2jbj9u5vnjc3ejoniplu@4ax.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
> 
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 22:19:35 -0800, "Jim Thomson" <Jim.thom@telus.net>
> wrote:
> 
>> ## 1 cubic ft,  120 lb  hypersil  pole pigs are also a dime a doz.  
>> [4160/4800 variety] .   
> 
> REPLY:
> 
> I'll take one. The penny is in the mail - keep the change.  :-)
> 
> 73, Bill W6WRT
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 14:17:53 -0500
> From: "Paul Christensen" <w9ac@arrl.net>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] I dont accept answers to why did Heath die?
> To: <amps@contesting.com>
> Message-ID: <77C10307A7A84D948DB01D9E8B4105DB@DBTOA000>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>       reply-type=original
> 
>> Some Windows programs have the same problem.
>>
>> One sure cure is to use WinKey if the Flex software supports it.
> 
> The keyed element timing isn't the issue with the Flex -- it's the T/R 
> turn-around time under the Windows O/S.  According to the QST Product 
> Review, the Flex-5000A switched in ~ 60 ms from Rx to Tx, and back to Rx. 
> That's an eternity in my world.  For comparison, the IC-7700 is about 26 ms, 
> and the K3 is 36 ms.  But even with such slow transitions, the Flex is still 
> capable of very good element timing that does not need WinKey's help.
> 
> No doubt the Flex T/R speed is a function of the PC's capabilities, but as 
> SDR hardware and firmware technology progresses, more of the DSP processing 
> function needs to be jettisoned from PC software to get back to reasonably 
> fast T/R timing.
> 
> Paul, W9AC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:20:24 -0500
> From: Frank T Brady <franktbrady@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] I dont accept answers to why did Heath die?
> To: amps@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <4B672978.4040701@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Jim,
> That's the third time I've heard "don't expect good CW operation out of 
> the box" (on air comments).
> So, it sounds like a K3 would be a lot less trouble - maybe SDR needs 
> S/W 'geeks' to fully utilize features.
> tx and 73 frank w0ecs
> 
> Jim Barber wrote:
>> Latency with the Flex may or may not be a problem depending on the PC 
>> and the care used to configure it.
>>
>> I make no claim to being a CW op, so it would be better to have the 
>> discussion with someone that is and has had success with high-speed 
>> CW. There are plenty of ops that both have and haven't, and your odds 
>> of success will be strongly tilted depending on your PC/OS expertise 
>> and attention to detail. No one will deny that the issue is complex.
>>
>> Also - improving CW operation has been a priority for the developers 
>> in the upcoming software release. Subscribing to the Flex "Edge" 
>> reflector will raise your noise floor substantially, but if you're 
>> good at separating problem users from real problems you can build a 
>> picture of the truth.
>>
>> My bottom line on the issue is that if I had been expecting a stellar 
>> out-of-box CW experience I would have been disappointed. If I knew 
>> then what I know now I'd be "ok" with it and looking forward to the 
>> next software release. Your mileage will vary with your expectations.
>>
>> HTH,
>>
>> 73,
>> Jim, N7CXI (Flex 5K owner) 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:28:03 -0500
> From: Frank T Brady <franktbrady@comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] I dont accept answers to why did Heath die?
> To: amps@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <4B672B43.8060700@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Paul,
> If "more of the DSP processing function needs to be jettisoned from PC 
> software"
> where would that functionality be moved to - and at what expense?
> frank w0ecs
> 
> Paul Christensen wrote:
>>> Some Windows programs have the same problem.
>>>
>>> One sure cure is to use WinKey if the Flex software supports it.
>>>     
>> The keyed element timing isn't the issue with the Flex -- it's the T/R 
>> turn-around time under the Windows O/S.  According to the QST Product 
>> Review, the Flex-5000A switched in ~ 60 ms from Rx to Tx, and back to Rx. 
>> That's an eternity in my world.  For comparison, the IC-7700 is about 26 ms, 
>> and the K3 is 36 ms.  But even with such slow transitions, the Flex is still 
>> capable of very good element timing that does not need WinKey's help.
>>
>> No doubt the Flex T/R speed is a function of the PC's capabilities, but as 
>> SDR hardware and firmware technology progresses, more of the DSP processing 
>> function needs to be jettisoned from PC software to get back to reasonably 
>> fast T/R timing.
>>
>> Paul, W9AC
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Amps mailing list
>> Amps@contesting.com
>> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
>>
>>   
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:53:29 -0800
> From: "Bill, W6WRT" <dezrat1242@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [Amps] I dont accept answers to why did Heath die?
> To: amps@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <krbem55549ig8kj3pm1ti8egkjr7fdspfj@4ax.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE:
> 
> On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 14:14:34 -0500, Frank T Brady
> <franktbrady@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
>> Bill,
>> I browsed the WinKey site and it didn't pop right out as to how/why 
>> WinKey solves SDR latency.
>> Could you expand on that just a little?
>> tx frank w0ecs
> 
> REPLY:
> 
> I don't claim to be any great expert, but I'll try. The problem with
> Windows software generating the keying signals is that Windows does
> multitasking and that can upset the timing of the dots and dashes, and
> of course timing is crucial. 
> 
> When using WinKey, the Windows program simply sends a command to
> WinKey that says in effect "send the letter A" for example, and WinKey
> itself generates a correctly timed keying signal. 
> 
> If my explanation is incorrect, someone jump in and correct me. 
> 
> 73, Bill W6WRT
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Amps mailing list
> Amps@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/amps
> 
> 
> End of Amps Digest, Vol 86, Issue 5
> ***********************************
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