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Re: [Amps] trying to understand 1296 cavity amp

To: gpatterson53@hotmail.com, amps@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [Amps] trying to understand 1296 cavity amp
From: TexasRF@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 20:36:17 EST
List-post: <amps@contesting.com">mailto:amps@contesting.com>
 
I don't know if anyone other than you and I are interested in this so any  
uninterested parties please hit your delete key and I apologize.
 
You are right Gary, there is no physical d.c. connection. There is a  
physical rf connection however, as the bypass looks like a near short to rf  .
 
There two different ways to look at the short: 1> there are many pF of  
capacitance between the bypass plate and the body of the cavity. How does that  
go? .224 X surface area of one plate divided by the spacing of the plate 
further  divided by velocity factor of the insulator. So, if you have a bypass 
plate say  16 square inches, with a teflon insulator .005" thick, that 
would be 16 X  .224  / .005 /.68 = 1054 pF. At 1296 MHz this value of 
capacitance = .116  ohms. Not exactly a short circuit but pretty close. This 
method 
gives an  approximation but is not as precise as the following. The reason is 
because this  method always results in -j values and ignores the skin 
effects.
 
2> if the width of the bypass plate is made 1/4 wavelength, and open  
circuit, the plate acts as a quarter wave transformer and reflects a short from 
 
the open end. Either way, the rf sees a low impedance path across the teflon 
 insulator. The width has to be exactly 90 degrees to reflect a short 
circuit but  again, it is still a pretty low number. Considering that the 
spacing 
between the  bypass and the cavity body is so small, the characteristic 
impedance of 1/4  wavelength "line" is low, on the order of a couple of ohms. 
With an impedance so  low, the bandwidth of the bypass is pretty wide. The 
reactance of such a "line"  is Z0 times tangent of line length in degrees. 
Going to half frequency, the  length becomes 45 degrees. The reactance then is 
only 2 ohms(-j) and going to  1.5 X frequency, the reactance is also 2 ohms 
but +j. At frequencies between  these two, the reactance is lowered until it 
reaches essentially zero at design  frequency. There are inherent losses in 
any transmission line and this prevents  reaching an actual zero ohm 
reflection. This is one of the reasons quarter  wave open stubs don't have 
infinite loss at the design frequency.(there also  other reasons).
 
Hope this is not more than you wanted to know!
 
73,
 
Gerald K5GW
 
 
 
In a message dated 11/20/2009 4:56:21 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
gpatterson53@hotmail.com writes:


Thanks so much for your reply.  I have scoured the  internet for info on 
this and there is little to none.
I need to reread  your response carefully but I still have a disconnect. 

The  n6ca cavity has the fingerstock anode plate (where the 2c39 plate 
plugs in) ,  then a teflon sheet and then the outside surface of the cavity. 
There is no  physical connection between the 2c39 plate and the cavity and 
therefore no  "skin effect surface"  to facilitate rf traveling as you  
described.  

does that make any sense.  Thanks   73   Gary


 
____________________________________
From: TexasRF@aol.com
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:41:37 -0500
Subject: Re:  [Amps] trying to understand 1296 cavity amp
To: gpatterson53@hotmail.com;  amps@contesting.com

Gary,
Without getting too deep into cavity theory, the rf is generated between  
the plate and grid in that tube. The rf flows on the cavity inner surfaces  
only. The rf will not pass through any of the metal parts.
 
Following this reasoning, any rf present at the plate flows from the tube  
contact ring into the plate bypass fingerstock and out and on to the inner  
surface of the bypass plate. At this point, the rf sees a very low impedance 
 and exits the bypass plate and on to the inner surface of the cavity upper 
 wall. The rf continues on to the outer wall of the cavity and sees a  
short circuit there. The short circuit causes a phase shift of 180 degrees and  
sends the rf back toward the tube in reverse order from above.
 
When every thing is in resonance, the returning energy is in phase at the  
tube plate connection.
 
The same action occurs on the lower side of the cavity from the grid to  
the cavity wall except there is no bypass capacitor plate in the rf flow  path.
 
There is heavy coupling between the upper and lower cavity walls as they  
are very close in terms of wavelengths.
 
The concept of ground essentially disappears inside the cavity. There is  
rf everywhere inside and ground is meaningless. Also, the action performs a  
balun function perfectly so that the output coax, which does have a ground  
reference, can couple to the rf inside the cavity.
 
There is a standing wave inside the cavity due to the short at the outer  
wall this is nearly infinite. The loss in the cavity is the limiting factor 
in  this vswr. The inherent high Q of cavities is related to this high vswr.
 
Pretty cool huh?
 
73,
Gerald K5GW
 
In a message dated 11/20/2009 9:48:31 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
gpatterson53@hotmail.com writes:



I have a n6ca 2c39 1296 cavity amp and have trouble  understanding how it 
works.  The 2c39 plate has a large teflon sheet  capacitor to ground.  I dont 
understand how any rf gets into the cavity  when the plate is dead shorted 
with this capacitor.  any  help?



gary

w4af

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