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[AMPS] Pi-Net math

To: <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [AMPS] Pi-Net math
From: w4eto@rmi.net (Richard W. Ehrhorn)
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 17:19:12 -0600
I'm with you, Ian. Someone on this reflector very recently stated the 
basic,  fundamental definition of "Q" as "(energy stored)/(energy 
dissipated)." I think "per cycle" is usually added. Ultimately that comes 
down to the very general form of X/R or R/X.

Seems to me the fundamental fact Rich continues to ignore is that you can't 
define a loaded Q, which is what we're inherently dealing with in matching 
networks, without including the dissipative element(s). Since the unloaded 
"Q" of individual network L & C components typically is >>10X the loaded 
"Q" of the network, for practical purposes (at least in high power Class 
AB-B-C vacuum tube amps) the load which the network feeds IS the only 
significant dissipative element. So of course "loaded Q" calculations must 
be made with the load R in place. If you can't calculate impedance 
transformation or network loaded Q without specifying RL, why in the world 
would you try to figure resonant frequency without it?

If unloaded Q of the network inductor is less than ~100X the loaded Q of 
the network, ignoring it (inductor Q) will introduce a small error into 
loaded Q and impedance calculations. Without trying to be rigorous, I'd 
guess that the resultant error percentage is roughly ~100 x QL/QU - 
typically 1 or 2% max.

Ian? Peter?

Cheerio,

Dick   W0ID




-----Original Message-----
From:   Ian White, G3SEK [SMTP:G3SEK@ifwtech.demon.co.uk]
Sent:   Thursday, August 05, 1999 4:13 PM
To:     amps@contesting.com
Subject:        Re: [AMPS] Pi-Net math


Rich Measures wrote:
>>>?  There is more than one way to figure Q.
>>
>>Evidently - like to tell us your definition?
>>
>?  I don't have one.  Eimac defines Q as the ratio between RL and the
>reactance of C1.  None of the Eimac formulae can be used without choosing
>a value of Q - as defined by their definition
>.
I can't believe I'm reading this. If you truly believe that the
definition of a quantity like Q is something that can change according
to whose pi-network formulae you use, then - I'm sorry, but it has to be
said - you literally don't understand the first thing about circuit
analysis.

>>The definition I'm using is Q = XL/Rs, where Rs is the transformed
>>effect of all resistive components, when made to appear in a series loop
>>with L.
>>
>?  A definition which does not work with Eimac's formulae.
>
I still can't believe I'm reading this!


73 from Ian G3SEK          Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
                          'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
                           http://www.ifwtech.demon.co.uk/g3sek

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