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[AMPS] Another arc question

To: <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [AMPS] Another arc question
From: measures@vc.net (Rich Measures)
Date: Sat, 9 May 98 12:29:19 -0800
>Rich Measures wrote:
>>>>Sample problem:   Part I:   Ls = 200nH, Rs = 200 ohms, f = 100MHz.  What 
>>>>is the Admittance, Y, Mr.  White?  A running description of your solution 
>>>>would be helpful.  
>>>
>>>No, I won't bite. There is absolutely no need to drag admittance into
>>>this discussion. 

When L is in parallel with R, admittance Is the name of the game.  When L 
is in series with R, impedance Is the name of the game.  

>>Then on to Part II:  what is the parallel-equivalent resistance of 200nH 
>>in parallel with 200 ohms at 100MHz?  (presumably using the method 
>>described below)
>>
>200 ohms, at ANY frequency, by definition - no calculation is required.
>
.....not the definition of Rp in Wes' measurements.  

>Part III - it's my turn: what is the series-equivalent form, ie what are
>Rs and Xs at 100MHz?
>
>XL = 2*pi*100E6*200E-9 = 125.66 ohms
>
>XL is equal to Xp by definition, because L and R are connected in
>parallel.
>
However, when an L, or a C, and an R are connected in parallel, we have 
susceptance and conductance in Siemens instead of reactance (X) and 
resistance in Ohms, which, at a discrete frequency result in an 
admittance (Y) instead of an impedance (Z).  
However Y can be converted to Z, and vice-versa.   

>R = 200 ohms = Rp by definition as we hopefully agreed above.
>
We do not because we are discussing Wes' measurements, not the *ARRL 
Handbook* (which used to be called the *Radio Amateur's Handbook*).  

>Then, using the equations I gave last time (out of the ARRL Handbook
>since time immemorial):
>
>
>Rs = Rp * Xp * Xp / (Rp * Rp + Xp * Xp)
>
>   = 56.61 ohms
>
>Xs = Rp * Rp * Xp / (Rp * Rp + Xp * Xp)
>
>   = 90.10 ohms - at 100MHz that's 143.40nH
>
>Q = Xs/Rs = 1.59
>
>(Check arithmetic by calculating Q directly from the input values: 
>1/Q = Xp/Rp = 0.63, so Q = 1.59 which is correct.)
>
It looks to me like Q is pretty close to 0.63, which is lower than Wes' 
measured Q of 1.3 for the W8JI suppressor, which used 100nH and 109 
ohms..  I seem to recall that you and Wes stated that decreasing R would 
decrease Q, however, increasing R to 200 ohms seems to have decreased Q.  
 .

>What do you make Xs, Rs and Q, Rich?
>
Q is not 1.59.  "Xs & Rs" look ok, however, Wes and I use "Rp" where you 
use "Rs" to designate the parallel-equivalent R.    
>
>What does this mean in real-world terms? 
>It means that at exactly 100MHz, a network analyser or R-X bridge cannot
>tell the difference between {200 ohms in parallel with 200nH} 

agreed

>and its series equivalent which is {56.61 ohms in series with 143.40nH}. 

 .  In real world terms, it means that, at 100MHz, this VHF parasitic 
suppressor presents a load to the anode of 56.6 ohms in series with 143nH 
to ground, which beats the resistance-wire (AG6K) suppressor's 101 ohms, 
as well as beating the copper-wire (W8JI) suppressor's 166 ohms,  which, 
in my opinion, will result in minimal voltage amplification at 100MHz -  
__Provided__ one can find a 45w, 200 ohm,12nH resistor.  .  .  However, 
the sticky-wicket is that if C-Tune has a resonance near 100MHz, all bets 
are off, which is very probably why the lowest-Q vhf suppressor sometimes 
can't do its job properly. 

-   (note:  power dissipation calculations are for a 3-500Z at 28MHz.  
However, for an 8877, the dissipation in the suppressor resistor would be 
approx. 4x more)  
>
>The two networks have exactly the same properties at that frequency. That's 
what
>"equivalent" means in this context.

well put, Mr. White.  


cheers
Rich...

R. L. Measures, 805-386-3734, AG6K   


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