> Much ado about nothing given that you are using assisted category in the
first
> place, in my opinion.
>
> 73...Stan, K5GO
I'm with Stan on this (full text of his post below.)
The rules against self-spotting are designed to prevent the more egregious
form, which is to spot one's run frequency. The potential impact of doing
that is far greater than self-spotting as a caller -- i.e., generating a
larger pileup and consequently higher rate versus being able to correctly
log one station.
There's a big difference between spotting a call and spotting both a call
and frequency. While the call is of course important, the second piece of
information, the frequency, is critical to locating stations and potential
new mults. When we worked on the Skimmer issue, the CAC defined a "spot" as
containing both pieces of information, and outlawed to use of spots from any
source, including local and remote Skimmers, in the SO Unassisted category.
But once you're in the Assisted or Unlimited category, you've crossed the
line into using spots. That's the definition. As long as you can find
stations/mults without tuning, which is a huge difference from the skills
required for SO Unassisted, it doesn't seem like a big deal that you can
copy a call sign from the spotting network.
I'm not saying it's right to self-spot as a caller, or let Skimmer do it for
you, but I think we should determine if this is a significant problem (i.e.,
significantly affects contest results) before getting too bent out of shape
about it.
When Tony first brought this up on the YCCC reflector, I thought a simple
solution would be for the cluster to mask the call sign of the spotter. But
of course that could open the door to more self-spotting.
But on reflection, I do think self-spotting as a caller could be detectable.
The log-checking software could check for spots of a CQing station by a
caller who worked the station within, say, one minute of the spot. If that
pattern appears more than a certain number of times in a log (10?, 15?,
25?), then the station could be warned or DQed.
73, Dick WC1M
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stan Stockton [mailto:wa5rtg@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 7:41 AM
> To: Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA
> Cc: <cq-contest@contesting.com>
> Subject: Re: [CQ-Contest] Too Much 'Assistance'?
>
> There are three ways this can occur:
>
> Guy calling CQ uses Skimmer in mode that copies everything on his run
> frequency in mode that doesn't require CQ or Test to be sent.
>
> Guy calling on Frequency assumes runner is using assistance and sends call
> followed by test and hopes runner pays attention that the spit is on his
own
> frequency.
>
> Guy manually spots himself as has been described.
>
> In all three cases the result is the same. The running station may take
> advantage of working someone he may or may not have worked otherwise.
>
> The same thing goes for using assistance in any form. You may work
stations
> that you may not have worked otherwise as a result of the call sign being
fed to
> you without your need or even ability to copy code.
>
> I would think the degree of this happening while running stations pales in
> comparison to a band map with several hundred new stations to work and
> every new multiplier in the world calling CQ at your fingertips.
>
> Much ado about nothing given that you are using assisted category in the
first
> place, in my opinion.
>
> 73...Stan, K5GO
>
> Sent from Stan's IPhone
>
>
>
> On Feb 20, 2014, at 5:38 PM, "Mike & Coreen Smith VE9AA"
> <ve9aa@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote:
>
> > Hey Tony,
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't often comment on this reflector, but read it quite often.
> >
> > I've gone assisted about 50% of the time the past couple years, mostly
> > just in the slower contests, just to increase my enjoyment level and
> > keep me interested. Sometimes I'll go assisted to attack a certain
Canadian
> record.
> > Often I will ignore this 'assistance' 95% of the time as I find it
> > distracting and just a clickfest. BORING ! Anyways, prior to the
> > past couple yrs, when in contest mode, it's always been a "boy and his
> > radio".but I digress.
> >
> >
> >
> > A couple contests ago, I forget which one (probably CQWW) something
> > like this happened to me and I thought it was REALLY strange, like I
> > had experienced a rip in the space-time continuum and I had to scratch
my
> head.
> >
> >
> >
> > I was running a small and very weak pileup of Europeans on 10m CW and
> > at the VERY moment, and I mean EXACTLY at
> >
> > the moment, I sent the DX's callsign (and hadn't event sent 5NN 5 or
> > whatever yet) I saw his callsign spot me. (manually I guess)
> >
> > I thought this was really bizarre, as I had not yet sent 5NN 5, nor
> > had I heard 5NN 20 from him yet.
> >
> >
> >
> > Normally you would only spot a station after you would work them,
> > right? I mean, you don't want MORE competition on the frequency you
> > are battling others on, right?
> >
> > Anyways, as it turned out, I got his call correct on my own, but I
> > wondered at the time, just what the bleep had occurred?>!.
> >
> >
> >
> > Reading your posting, a light bulb went on and I think here's what
> > might have occurred.
> >
> >
> >
> > I was running.
> >
> >
> >
> > TA3XXX was calling. (I made this call up just now)
> >
> >
> >
> > He wasn't getting through, so hoping I was watching he manually spotted
me.
> >
> >
> >
> > The manual spot went out of his logging program via internet (or VHF
> > FM?)..some delay occurred... and
> >
> > at the very time I saw it I just happened to be working him anyways.
> >
> >
> >
> > What he/she probably had anticipated was me seeing the spot, seen a
> > semi rare country farther and weaker than the more western EU's, so
> > he/she presumed I would stop and listen for them, THEN working them.
> >
> >
> >
> > I think it was just luck of the draw that I was already sending the
> > thankfully correct call (and thereby knew the zone by default)
> >
> >
> >
> > I felt weird about it at the time, but I had no "spare" time to dwell
> > on it in the heat of battle. Your post now makes sense.
> >
> > I dislike this practice and have said to myself if that ever happens I
> > will ignore that station, EVEN if it's a mult.
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't need to win that bad. It takes away all my satisfaction.
> > It's about the same as a list operation where Net control gives my
> > call, then the DX listens to me scream "22, 22, 22, rifle shots,
> > bang-bang", and then someone else OK's the contact.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for bringing this up Tony. I am on-board with your thoughts.
> > I can't imagine why anyone would condone this practice.
> >
> >
> >
> > One other thing that just occurred to me is every so often if I am
> > just listening to a contest, maybe making only a dozen contacts, or
> > maybe very casually just tuning for mults, I'll spot guys (and not
> > even work them, or perhaps I worked them earlier) and a couple times I
> > have actually stayed on their QRG long enough to hear the DX send
> > "VE9AA 5NN 15" even though I have not transmitted ! ! !............now I
know
> why.
> >
> >
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike VE9AA
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike, Coreen & Corey
> >
> > Keswick Ridge, NB
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > CQ-Contest mailing list
> > CQ-Contest@contesting.com
> > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
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