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Re: [TowerTalk] [DILLO] Re: New Proposed Texas Tower Regulation

To: Gary J - N5BAA <qltfnish@omniglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [DILLO] Re: New Proposed Texas Tower Regulation
From: Paul Gilbert <ke5zw@wt.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Feb 2015 15:23:49 -0600
List-post: <towertalk@contesting.com">mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
Arrl is aware of the the issue are working it. No need to contact ARRL at this 
time.
Paul

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 8, 2015, at 3:09 PM, Gary J - N5BAA <qltfnish@omniglobal.net> wrote:
> 
> A number of members of our Ham Club are requesting a meeting with our State 
> Rep (Rep Murr) tomorrow to get clarification on this subject regulation/law. 
> We are also elevating it up to ARRL to have their legal people contact the 
> legal people in Texas for a definitive ruling.  There needs to be a clear 
> definition about Ham Radio Towers or guess what - many many 2M repeater 
> towers around the state which are not located near QTH's will become 
> headaches beyond comprehension.
> 
> Gary J
> N5BAA
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Paul Gilbert
> Sent: Sunday, February 8, 2015 10:51 AM
> To: dillo@armadillo.org
> Cc: L L bahr ; towertalk@contesting.com
> Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] [DILLO] Re: New Proposed Texas Tower Regulation
> 
> As they say in the movie..... "Cabolaro"....Cowboy....
> 
> We have pilots in our group....
> 
> What are the regs covering this type of work.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
>> On 2/8/15 10:41 AM, Wm5l wrote:
>> I can only speak from limited experience about crop dusters. I grew up 
>> farming cotton, corn, wheat and milo in Hill county in high school. We used 
>> aircraft a lot to spray the crops. I knew one pilot that was killed when 
>> showing off, doing stunts in his duster like flying below telephone lines. 
>> They used to laugh and brag about coming back to the strip and having Cotton 
>> boll's hung in the landing gear. Personally I am fascinated by aviation but 
>> some of the antics displayed by some of these pilots are insane! Just last 
>> year while living next to the airport in ElDorado, TX I went over and spoke 
>> to one of the guys dusting one afternoon while he was refilling his 
>> chemicals that he was spraying. I asked him why I never heard him on 123.0 
>> calling approach and departure on my scanner as it is an uncontrolled 
>> airport. He stated "we don't ever do that we just do our own thing". It 
>> would seem to me that some common sense or basic safety practices might 
>> eliminate all this nonsense. Jim WM5L.
>> 
>> Sent from Big Jim's iPhone
>> 
>>> On Feb 8, 2015, at 10:07, Mike Simpson - Midcom, Inc. <mike@midcom.org 
>>> <mailto:mike@midcom.org>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Paul, I also find it somewhat  ironic and a bit amusing that the onus for 
>>> rule implementation (and even enforcement?!?!) of this bill, should it 
>>> become law…gets tossed right back in your very own department’s lap! Wonder 
>>> if that will mean you personally, since you are their “go-to” comms guy!
>>> 
>>> If so, your current “Army of one” will need some serious new manpower! J
>>> 
>>> *From:*Paul Gilbert [mailto:ke5zw@wt.net]
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 08, 2015 9:58 AM
>>> *To:* dillo@armadillo.org <mailto:dillo@armadillo.org>; L L bahr
>>> *Cc:* towertalk@contesting.com <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>; Armadillo 
>>> Mailing List
>>> *Subject:* Re: [DILLO] Re: [TowerTalk] New Proposed Texas Tower Regulation
>>> 
>>> We had a 35 foot wooden telephone pole at the office in Anauhac. It use to 
>>> have a lowband ant and a VHF DB264 on it. I had to do a FAA determination 
>>> and then circularize it for approve at 45 feet due to the proximity to the 
>>> local airfield.
>>> 
>>> Even without the antennas, the FAA wanted a "steady burning red light" on 
>>> it.
>>> 
>>> We built a tower in Winnie and removed the pole.
>>> 
>>> However, this bill really has nothing to do with the FAA jurisdiction.
>>> 
>>> In fact the FAA told the crop dusters, that the towers are legal under 
>>> their rules and nothing else could be done by the FAA
>>> 
>>> Interesting fact, the tower owners COULD voluntarily paint and light the 
>>> towers.
>>> 
>>> Mostly what the dusters are after are the meteorology towers located in 
>>> wind farms which are often located in crop fields.
>>> 
>>> Drive around West Texas, you will see them everywhere.
>>> 
>>> But if you paint and light voluntarily, from that day on you are required 
>>> to do so just as if you were mandated to do so.
>>> 
>>> Now this bill proposes to create a state level of mandated marking and 
>>> painting (interesting they did not include lighting, but I guess crop 
>>> dusters do not fly at night) to towers that the FAA will not extend 
>>> mandated marking to.
>>> 
>>> It seems to me this is overreach by state rule into a federal rule 
>>> area...among other issues.
>>> 
>>> I also thought crop dusters had certain procedures they had to follow 
>>> before dusting a field....like go look at it for obstructions and have 
>>> spotters?
>>> 
>>> Paul,ZW
>>> 
>>> On 2/8/15 8:50 AM, Joe Jarrett wrote:
>>> 
>>>    To further this discussion, even a relatively short  tower at
>>>    a residence could be at an illegal height.  It has to do with how
>>>    close you are to an airport.  Do you know how close your nearest
>>>    airport is?  I bet you don't.
>>> 
>>>    There is a test available on the Internet called Towair. Google
>>>    Tow air, enter a lat and long and a tower height and the software
>>>    will tell you if your tower is legal.
>>> 
>>>    For example, I ran a 40 foot tower in Lakeway about 200 yards
>>>    back into where all the houses are.  Towair told me that such a
>>>    tower would require registration with the FAA and might require
>>>    lighting.  Some of the houses there are close to 40 ft high!
>>> 
>>>    Joe Jarrett
>>> 
>>>    Texas State APCO Frequency Coordinator
>>> 
>>>    ----- Original Message -----
>>> 
>>>        *From:*Mark Stennett <mailto:Mark@stennett.com>
>>> 
>>>        *To:*Kim Elmore <mailto:cw_de_n5op@sbcglobal.net> ; L L bahr
>>>        <mailto:pulsarxp@embarqmail.com>
>>> 
>>>        *Cc:*towertalk@contesting.com <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
>>> 
>>>        *Sent:*Saturday, February 07, 2015 10:38 PM
>>> 
>>>        *Subject:*[DILLO] Re: [TowerTalk] New Proposed Texas Tower
>>>        Regulation
>>> 
>>>        No tower is exempt from FAA siting requirements, regardless
>>>        of height. You wouldn't put a 10 foot tower at the base of a
>>>        runway, would you? All structures, permanent or temporary
>>>        have to pass a number of FAA tests, including slope. Until
>>>        recentl, I worked in broadcast radio doing engineering work
>>>        for the last 30 years, 20 of those on a corporate level. We
>>>        acquired a radio station once that had a studio microwave
>>>        tower that was 60 foot tall. Even though it was at least 10
>>>        feet shorter than the surrounding tree line, it was required
>>>        to bear an Antenna Structure Registration Number and be top
>>>        lit due to proximity to a local airport. It did not pass the
>>>        slope test.
>>> 
>>>        This is a very sloppy bill. It would be far easier to
>>>        leverage the FAA to tighten up the temporary structure rules
>>>        than to try to make these guys tower experts. The tail is
>>>        trying to wag the dog here.
>>> 
>>> https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/gisTools/gisAction.jsp?action=showNoNoticeRequiredToolForm
>>> 
>>> 
>>>        73 de na6m
>>> 
>>>        -----Original Message-----
>>>        From: Kim Elmore <cw_de_n5op@sbcglobal.net>
>>>        <mailto:cw_de_n5op@sbcglobal.net>
>>>        To: L L bahr <pulsarxp@embarqmail.com>
>>>        <mailto:pulsarxp@embarqmail.com>
>>>        Cc: "towertalk@contesting.com"
>>>        <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com> <towertalk@contesting.com>
>>>        <mailto:towertalk@contesting.com>
>>>        Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2015 12:30:54 -0600
>>>        Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] New Proposed Texas Tower Regulation
>>> 
>>>        This comes directly from wind observing towers for wind farm
>>>        siting. They are all under 300' tell and do not subject to
>>>        FAA obstruction marking requirements. These are erected
>>>        essentially overnight and several aerial applicators have run
>>>        into them because they have no obstruction lighting or markings.
>>> 
>>>        The curtiledge languages essentially exempts almost all of us.
>>> 
>>>        Kim N5OP
>>> 
>>>        "People that make music together cannot be enemies, at least
>>>        as long as the music lasts." -- Paul Hindemith
>>> 
>>>        > On Feb 7, 2015, at 11:55, "L L bahr "
>>>        <pulsarxp@embarqmail.com <mailto:pulsarxp%40embarqmail.com>>
>>>        wrote:
>>>        >
>>>        > FYI
>>>        > Lee, w0vt
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>> http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLookup/Text.aspx?LegSess=84R&Bill=HB946
>>> 
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        > Please read and pass this to all Amateur Radio Operators
>>>        who have towers. This “COULD” be detrimental to all of us.
>>>        There are things I am not certain of that I would like
>>>        answers to or to clarify so that we could write to our
>>>        legislature to either kill this bill or more narrowly define
>>>        it so that it is not “ALL INCLUSIVE” in nature. It is my
>>>        understanding that the Crop Duster Association is behind this
>>>        because some pilot either through stupidity or an accident
>>>        killed himself by flying into an obstruction. (I have many
>>>        times pulled off the road and watched these guys. Several
>>>        times I have witnessed them doing stupid reckless maneuvers)
>>>        While I am an advocate for safety and common sense, I do not
>>>        think everyone should “PAY” for the actions of a very small
>>>        few. If a bill like this must exist, it should define a
>>>        specific distance around the “WORK/FLY ZONE” and not every
>>>        tower in the state. We should write our representatives to
>>>        kill or modify this bill.
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        > SECTION 1.  Subchapter B, Chapter 21, Transportation Code
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        > Section 21.071 (a) 1, 2, 3 clearly define “MOST” Amateur
>>>        Radio towers.
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        > Section 21.071 (b) 1, 2 “APPEAR” to exempt many Amateur
>>>        Radio Towers BUT does it? What is  the State’s legal
>>>        definition of “curtilage”?
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        > Section 21.071 (e) 2, “APPEARS” to exempt Amateur Radio
>>>        Operators as “a facility licensed by the Federal
>>>        Communications Commission or any structure with the primary
>>>        purpose of supporting telecommunications equipment” but then
>>>        goes on to specifically define commercial radio service. The
>>>        “and” seems to separate the two?
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        > Section 21.071 (f) 1, 2 “REQUIRES” notice and registration.
>>>        You know FEES and PERMITS will soon follow.
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        > Section 21.071 (a), (b) appears to make it retroactive
>>>        after September 1, 2016.
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        > Are there any lawyers among us who could speak to this and
>>>        guide us in writing a proper request to our representatives
>>>        regarding this?
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        > What are your thoughts?
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        > Regards,
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        > Larry Lowry
>>>        >
>>>        > Radio System Manager
>>>        >
>>>        > (936) 538-3770 Shop
>>>        >
>>>        > (936) 538-3711 Direct
>>>        >
>>>        > (936) 538-3775 Fax
>>>        >
>>>        > imagesWD5CFJ
>>>        >
>>>        > qrcode.17489151
>>>        >
>>>        > _______________________________________________
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        >
>>>        > _______________________________________________
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