Supports just exactly what I said earlier....
--Are you kiddin'? You just have to wonder how many of these success
stories are in reality just accidents looking for the right time and place
to 'drop trow'. I also maintain that some of these weekend warriors are the
reason why it can be so hard to get a permit to install and /or permission
to install a tower for many of the rest. --
-Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Thomas
Sent: Thursday, November 15, 2007 8:46 AM
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] TowerTalk Digest, Vol 59, Issue 40
Hey Guys,
The stories I was talking about, Where from other people who have put these
towers up. All the towers that I have installed have been well built and
installed as close to specs as possible by the owner. I don't tell anyone
how to install towers. I show or tell them the specs from the book and go
with that. If they want to cut corners thats there choice. I just stack
towers. I don't do any ground work. If it does not look right, I wont touch
it. And as for as encouraging others to do it different is not my
intentions. Just stating the facts that most hams and CB'ers will not follow
instructions. Like guyed post, guy wires, clamps, bolts, and brackets.
Here is an example: Man installs a 120 foot tower using trailer house
anchors and two sets of 3/16" guyes. Three element HF beam and a dual band
ground plain antenna at the top. I told him he was crazy for using trailer
house anchors first off (3 foot long). Then only two sets of wires. Are you
nuts. He said that if a trailer house anchor could hold a trailer down it
should work for a tower. First big thunder storm comes and blows it down
across his house.
I tried. But he would not listen.
I'm only saying what I have seen. I love my Ham buddies. I can give them
better guidence than some ex CBer. I'd rather do it than see one of my
buddies get hurt.I can go on and on about all the towers I have seen put up
by other people including professonals (which cut corners too).
Again I do not install base concrete or guy anchors. I only stack and
un-stack sections.
I enjoyed staying with Bill, And listening to his advice. His tower was the
first 55 that I have stacked.
Read the Rohn Book of specs.
W5KGT
Kevin Thomas
Calhoun,La.
----- Original Message -----
From: towertalk-request@contesting.com
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:49:23 AM (GMT-0600) America/Chicago
Subject: TowerTalk Digest, Vol 59, Issue 40
Send TowerTalk mailing list submissions to
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of TowerTalk digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Rohn 25G Tower (Cqtestk4xs@aol.com)
2. Re: Rohn 25G Tower (Michael Ryan)
3. Re: F12 EF-140S (Phil Snyder)
4. Re: Cable Treatment Suggestions (Ian White GM3SEK)
5. Re: Rohn 25G Tower (David Calder)
6. unguyed Rohn 25 (Gregg Seidl)
7. Re: Rohn 25G Tower (Wayne Kline)
8. Re: unguyed Rohn 25 (w5ba@charter.net)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:11:14 EST
From: Cqtestk4xs@aol.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn 25G Tower
To: TOWERTALK@contesting.com
Message-ID: <ca8.1cc1e791.346a61c2@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
In a message dated 11/13/2007 12:20:30 A.M. Greenwich Standard Time,
w5kgt@w5kgt.com writes:
I have installed over 85 Rohn 25G towers in the past 30 years. Many have
been 40-50 foot with the proper base and no guy wires. These have been for
the
CB'ers and Ham radio operators. These also have anywhere between 3 & 6
element
beams. Never have heard of a problem with any of these. I know of a 70 foot
Rohn 25G tower that has a 4 element Moonraker beam with no guy wires. It
has
a 5'x5'x5' concrete base and still standing after 25 years of North
Louisiana
weather....W5KGT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Uh, Kevin installed my tower out here in KH6. Kevin has a pretty big brass
set to hover above the ground on 50 feet of unguyed Rohn 25...especially
with
a tribander on top. This is an accident waiting to happen.
In Florida I saw the results of what a hurricane can do to Rohn 25 and it
ain't pretty. With several hundred pounds of tower and antenna at that
height,
the installation can be lethal.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's safe. I can drive with
without using my hands for a while and just because I can do it doesn't
mean
it is a smart thing to do.
YMMV.
Bill K4XS/KH7XS
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 21:50:29 -0500
From: "Michael Ryan" <mryan001@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn 25G Tower
To: <Cqtestk4xs@aol.com>, <TOWERTALK@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <007101c8259f$f37c3350$da7499f0$@rr.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bill, In my opinion you are right on the money. I read stuff on here about
how successful guys have been with their respective projects. Most are cool.
This week the subject is the Rohn 25....a lot of discussion on UN-GUYED Rohn
25. Are you kiddin'? You just have to wonder how many of these success
stories are in reality just accidents looking for the right time and place
to 'drop trow'. I also maintain that some of these weekend warriors are the
reason why it can be so hard to get a permit to install and /or permission
to install a tower for many of the rest. The auto manufacturers do not
include a manual on how to drive in the glove compartment of each car they
sell. They assume the buyer does. The same is true of the companies who sell
towers and related "stuff" ( that's 'tower talk' for equipment). Fact is it
can be just as dangerous to install or service a tower without the
experience and/or due diligence as it is to take a drive on The Howard
Frankland Bridge... but they'll keep on doing it. I can hear it now "...my
brother-in-law said it would be ok." All I have to say is,
" good luck, my brass balled buddies." - Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Cqtestk4xs@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 9:11 PM
To: TOWERTALK@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn 25G Tower
In a message dated 11/13/2007 12:20:30 A.M. Greenwich Standard Time,
w5kgt@w5kgt.com writes:
I have installed over 85 Rohn 25G towers in the past 30 years. Many have
been 40-50 foot with the proper base and no guy wires. These have been for
the
CB'ers and Ham radio operators. These also have anywhere between 3 & 6
element
beams. Never have heard of a problem with any of these. I know of a 70 foot
Rohn 25G tower that has a 4 element Moonraker beam with no guy wires. It
has
a 5'x5'x5' concrete base and still standing after 25 years of North
Louisiana
weather....W5KGT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Uh, Kevin installed my tower out here in KH6. Kevin has a pretty big brass
set to hover above the ground on 50 feet of unguyed Rohn 25...especially
with
a tribander on top. This is an accident waiting to happen.
In Florida I saw the results of what a hurricane can do to Rohn 25 and it
ain't pretty. With several hundred pounds of tower and antenna at that
height,
the installation can be lethal.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's safe. I can drive with
without using my hands for a while and just because I can do it doesn't
mean
it is a smart thing to do.
YMMV.
Bill K4XS/KH7XS
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
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http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
__________ NOD32 2653 (20071112) Information __________
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 20:55:19 -0600
From: Phil Snyder <n9lah@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] F12 EF-140S
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Message-ID: <47391217.6050408@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Thanks for all the replies and especially the fact that they all agree
that my idea will work. Although I may need to take some time to get it
done right and it may not make tis round of tower work.
Phil
N9LAH
Phil Snyder wrote:
> I have the antenna mentioned in the subject line. I purchased it used
> about a year ago. I never really got around to checking it out. I have
> now tried to assemble it as a stand alone dipole. The problem I have is
> that it only came with the bracket to mount to the boom of a C-3 and not
> the plate with riser to hold the linear loading when assembled as a
> dipole. For those familiar with the antenna, can I just fabricate a
> small plate to mount the spreader on the mast above the antenna? It
> almost looks like too simple an idea to work.
>
> Phil
> N9LAH
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
>
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 08:43:32 +0000
From: Ian White GM3SEK <gm3sek@ifwtech.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Cable Treatment Suggestions
To: towertalk@contesting.com
Cc: Peter Sundberg <sm2cew@telia.com>
Message-ID: <xwa6mjJ0OWOHFAD5@ifwtech.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed
Roger (K8RI) wrote:
>
>>Has anyone here ever built or acquired a simple, small plow blade,
>>scoop, digger suitable for a decent sized garden tractor yet capable
>>of digging enough trench to bury control line, RG6 bev lines or even a
>>run of RG8
>
>Take a look at the blade and feeder the power company uses to bury the
>natural gas lines feeding the customer.
>If only going down 3 or 4 inches max a fairly simple system can be built
you
>can hook to a medicum size garden tractor with little expense if you have
>access to some welding equipment.
[...]
>BTW the same device can be used to bury radials just beneath the surface
>although it doesn't need to be near as "beefy" to just cut a slot in the
>grass and lay the wire.
http://www.sm2cew.com/plow.htm
Not quite big enough for Bill's cables, but a very good source of ideas.
It also confirms that just everybody needs to own a red Volvo tractor.
--
73 from Ian GM3SEK
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 06:58:22 -0500
From: "David Calder" <n4zkf@n4zkf.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn 25G Tower
To: "'TowerTalk'" <towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <fc3ih8s5xjfn2y1.131120070655@n4zkf.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Funny, weekend warriors. While I wouldn't be caught dead on 70' of unguyed
25. I'm in the business. I'm a
territory supervisor for American Tower. Imagine that. Been in the business
for almost 2 decades.
I wonder if that makes ME a weekend warrior. I think this thread got way off
base some time ago.
I have 30' of 25 unguyed above my roof line. That causes you to not get a
permit in Tampa? You lost me there.
73 Dave n4zkf
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Michael Ryan
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 9:50 PM
To: Cqtestk4xs@aol.com; TOWERTALK@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn 25G Tower
Bill, In my opinion you are right on the money. I read stuff on here about
how successful guys have been with their respective projects. Most are cool.
This week the subject is the Rohn 25....a lot of discussion on UN-GUYED Rohn
25. Are you kiddin'? You just have to wonder how many of these success
stories are in reality just accidents looking for the right time and place
to 'drop trow'. I also maintain that some of these weekend warriors are the
reason why it can be so hard to get a permit to install and /or permission
to install a tower for many of the rest. The auto manufacturers do not
include a manual on how to drive in the glove compartment of each car they
sell. They assume the buyer does. The same is true of the companies who sell
towers and related "stuff" ( that's 'tower talk' for equipment). Fact is it
can be just as dangerous to install or service a tower without the
experience and/or due diligence as it is to take a drive on The Howard
Frankland Bridge... but they'll keep on doing it. I can hear it now "...my
brother-in-law said it would be ok." All I have to say is, " good luck, my
brass balled buddies." - Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: towertalk-bounces@contesting.com
[mailto:towertalk-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Cqtestk4xs@aol.com
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2007 9:11 PM
To: TOWERTALK@contesting.com
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn 25G Tower
In a message dated 11/13/2007 12:20:30 A.M. Greenwich Standard Time,
w5kgt@w5kgt.com writes:
I have installed over 85 Rohn 25G towers in the past 30 years. Many have
been 40-50 foot with the proper base and no guy wires. These have been for
the CB'ers and Ham radio operators. These also have anywhere between 3 & 6
element beams. Never have heard of a problem with any of these. I know of a
70 foot
Rohn 25G tower that has a 4 element Moonraker beam with no guy wires. It
has a 5'x5'x5' concrete base and still standing after 25 years of North
Louisiana weather....W5KGT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Uh, Kevin installed my tower out here in KH6. Kevin has a pretty big brass
set to hover above the ground on 50 feet of unguyed Rohn 25...especially
with a tribander on top. This is an accident waiting to happen.
In Florida I saw the results of what a hurricane can do to Rohn 25 and it
ain't pretty. With several hundred pounds of tower and antenna at that
height, the installation can be lethal.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's safe. I can drive with
without using my hands for a while and just because I can do it doesn't mean
it is a smart thing to do.
YMMV.
Bill K4XS/KH7XS
************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
TowerTalk mailing list
TowerTalk@contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
__________ NOD32 2653 (20071112) Information __________
This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com
_______________________________________________
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 09:19:00 -0600
From: "Gregg Seidl" <k9kl@centurytel.net>
Subject: [TowerTalk] unguyed Rohn 25
To: <TowerTalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <003101c82608$85a9f100$0301a8c0@your9k1ay6x2a2>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Kinda reminds me of the famous last words......hey ya'll,watch this.
Gregg K9KL
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:16:53 -0500
From: Wayne Kline <w3ea@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] Rohn 25G Tower
To: Michael Ryan <mryan001@tampabay.rr.com>, <cqtestk4xs@aol.com>,
<towertalk@contesting.com>
Message-ID: <BAY109-W862EDFF772AEFA62BB7828F800@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Years ago Hams would say " If it stayed up last winter it was not BIG
enough. I like the idea BUT i think they left out a key ingredient, The BIG
support structure to support it. Today in age with the ridged practice of
Code enforcement and the Litigious society, straying out side the
MAnufactures engineered guidelines is IMHO risky on many levels. Not only
the liability aspect but the danger to your self or those in close
proximity. I to have installed and repaired towers of all types. and the
issue here is not can I plant 40 ft of Rohn 25G with a tri band antenna
TA33,A3, C3 ECT but is this a sound installation.
IMO while stacking 25 with no temp guys 30' it's the start of the
pucker power area, as it sways around let alone 40 ft and then installing
an antenna, drive pipe ,rotor and cabling . Can it be DONE yes, is it a good
practice ... no.
I can only speak for my self. But When I speck out an installing , it's
"BY THE BOOK "
let's be honest, can we push the envelope of the SQ footage on antenna load.
Yup. BTDT. the flip side of this and I think that's what started this
Thread. " I plan on doing this what's you opinion" It's NOT advisable to
skimp in the Guy level spacing or material, the base size or the guy %
placement from the base, or Free standing capabilities ect. Can it be done
Heck yes, is it sound install NO.
Wayne W3EA
_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by
today.
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWL
tagline
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2007 11:49:16 -0500
From: <w5ba@charter.net>
Subject: Re: [TowerTalk] unguyed Rohn 25
To: TowerTalk@contesting.com, Gregg Seidl <k9kl@centurytel.net>
Message-ID: <20071113114916.L87CJ.60558.root@fepweb01>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Think the proper quote, in East Texas at least, is: "hold my beer and watch
this!"
...on topic, I've walked away from 60' of ~guyed~ 25G that only held a 3L
10M
cause 1) one of the 'guys' was gone altogether, 2) the remainder were loose
enough to just as well not be there and 3) the 'anchors' were so loose that
the extra temporary guy material I had brought with me for just such a
contingency would not have had anything to hold against.
My late father-in-law was a funeral director. Driving off (from Iberia
Parish as it happens) and leaving 60' of 25G that you've already bought and
PayPal'd for sight unseen is a hell of a lot cheaper than anything he had in
his price list.
Be careful folks.
73, Gerald W5BA
---- Gregg Seidl <k9kl@centurytel.net> wrote:
> Kinda reminds me of the famous last words......hey ya'll,watch this.
> Gregg K9KL
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> TowerTalk mailing list
> TowerTalk@contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/towertalk
------------------------------
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End of TowerTalk Digest, Vol 59, Issue 40
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