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Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 105, Issue 29

To: "topband@contesting.com" <topband@contesting.com>
Subject: Re: Topband: Topband Digest, Vol 105, Issue 29
From: John <john@all-the-facts.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 20:40:50 -0500
List-post: <topband@contesting.com">mailto:topband@contesting.com>
I would like some advice of using my crank up US Tower pole as an antenna for 
160. The pole is mounted on top of a concrete block that has 4 threaded iron 
rods on which the pole is set . the block is 5 feet deep. 

Does the concrete block insulate the pole from ground? 

>From each of the 4 rods from the base I have a #8 copper wire to an 8 foot 
>copper clad ground rods. There is also a 30 foot copper tubing that is sunk 
>vertically into the ground.  I start getting water at  about 10 feet. 

So any ideas as of what to in this situation. Best 73 John NS5Z

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 27, 2011, at 2:00 PM, topband-request@contesting.com wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. Re: Effect of current max not at base of vertical. (Pete W2PM)
>   2. Re: Effect of current max not at base of vertical (Pete W2PM)
>   3. Re: 4W6A (ik4gme)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 20:12:26 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Pete W2PM <w2pm@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of current max not at base of vertical.
> To: zr@jeremy.mv.com, olinger@bellsouth.net
> Cc: topband@contesting.com, herbs@vitelcom.net
> Message-ID: <8CE4AC145B2FC2D-1330-5E99F@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Re signal improvements when over fresh water or swamp I've notice that many 
> times on VHF or FM radio in the car and always simply suspected the effects 
> of being in the clear without obstructions like buildings and trees. 
> 
> 
> Pete W2PM
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ZR <zr@jeremy.mv.com>
> To: Guy Olinger K2AV <olinger@bellsouth.net>
> Cc: topband <topband@contesting.com>; herbs <herbs@vitelcom.net>
> Sent: Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:35 pm
> Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of current max not at base of vertical.
> 
> 
> Well, Im on top of a pine and oak covered hill these days and RF ground 
> esistance tests say it aint so hot; about 250 Ohms for the Beverages. There 
> is 
> bout 8-10" of compost and then very bony soil to an average of 18" before 
> solid 
> ock. Now, the rock what locals call rotten granite as it just flakes off, is 
> ikely due to a high iron content which also affects well water around here.
> Maybe I should try drilling deep into the rock and pounding down a copper 
> clad 
> od that is slightly larger diameter.
> I still remember driving around when much younger how suddenly the AM BCB 
> would 
> ave much increased signal strengths for a short distance and there was 
> nothing 
> isible in the area to account for it. Crossing over a large area of fresh 
> water 
> r swamp always peaked signals even when the road wasnt elevated.
> Answers are needed.
> Carl
> M1H
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: Guy Olinger K2AV 
> To: ZR 
> Cc: herbs@vitelcom.net ; topband@contesting.com 
> Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 3:30 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of current max not at base of vertical.
> 
> EZNEC's "fresh water" selection shows a conductivity of .001 (very 
> nconductive). So it's talking about Great Lakes fresh water away from urban 
> olution.  Question would be how conductive the swamp water is.  I would 
> ersonally guess that if the area is heavily vegetated and slow draining, the 
> onductivity would be higher due to dissolved compounds produced by submerged 
> otting vegetation.  
> 
> Anybody care to go out in the middle of your local freshwater swamp and stick 
> hmmeter probes down there?  The conductivity may even be layered, since the 
> ater with dissolved materials will weigh more and the more fresh will lay on 
> op.  
> 
> If really stinky "fresh" water marsh is as conductive as that super-rich 
> idwest pastoral soil we keep hearing about, it jumps up to the best of 
> on-salt-water results.  How conductive is YOUR local fresh water swamp.  
> 
> 73, Guy
> 
> PS, this also applies to fairly acidic recently wet down pine straw forest 
> loors, like those down in flat land Carolina loblolly or oak forests. Would 
> ary incredibly depending on whether dry or not, or well drained with acid 
> eached out.
> 
> On Sat, Sep 24, 2011 at 11:29 AM, ZR <zr@jeremy.mv.com> wrote:
>    Ive doubted some of the claims about fresh water swamps based only on 
> ersonal experience. At a prior QTH I had them on 2 sides and extending to a 
> ile or more and the 160 vertical "appeared" to play better then expected.
>   All that rotting vegetation had to be good for something and it rarely 
> froze 
> ore than a few inches in the winter.
>    Carl
>   KM1H
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> ______________________________________________
> R RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 20:17:03 -0400 (EDT)
> From: Pete W2PM <w2pm@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of current max not at base of vertical
> To: W9UCW@aol.com, topband@contesting.com
> Message-ID: <8CE4AC1EA776E65-1330-5EAE7@webmail-d180.sysops.aol.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> I onvce did a observational study like this with W2JPW who lives 3 miles from 
> my QTH.  We did the test on all bands from 160 to 2 meters using zero gain 
> omni directional antennas. On 160, with 1500W he was S5.  On 80 S9 plus,  On 
> 40 S4, and moderately strong on higher bands except for 17meters where he was 
> very weak.  All the time we were in QSO on a 2 meter 1.5W portable in each of 
> our basements with rubber antennas. Full quieting each way.  By the way on 
> the weak bands he had no issues with QSO success on them so there wasnt 
> anything inherently bad about his system.
> 
> 
> Pete W2PM
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: W9UCW <W9UCW@aol.com>
> To: topband <topband@contesting.com>
> Sent: Sat, Sep 24, 2011 11:35 pm
> Subject: Re: Topband: Effect of current max not at base of vertical
> 
> 
> This may or may not be significant to the  discussion. In the 1970's I was 
> sing a 120 foot insulated base vertical as my  main transmit antenna. I had 
> 2,000 feet of #12 copper radials from 90 to 200  feet in length buried 
> bout 3 inches in the ground surrounding the antenna. It  was located near 
> inooka, Illinois in a wooded rural area.
> 
> s an experiment, I asked several friends who  were located from one to 
> welve miles away to record my signal strength at  their location each day for 
> ne month at a specific power of 100 watts of  carrier. Then I had my tower 
> limbing buddy, Jack, W9YF (SK) put a resonator  tuned to 1850 on top of the 
> ertical. 
> 
> had to modify the base matching system. It had  been a shunt coil to 
> round. It now required a parallel resonant circuit from  the base of the 
> tower 
> o ground with the coax from the rig tapped onto the  coil.
> 
> hen my friends reported the signal strength  they now recorded, it was 
> rom a half to a full "S" unit more than their  original readings. Now that's 
> ertainly not very scientific, but their comments,  assuming all groundwave  
> eadings, were sure interesting to  me.
> 
> 3, CU on TopBand, Barry,  W9UCW
> ______________________________________________
> R RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2011 10:57:12 +0200
> From: "ik4gme" <ik4gme@libero.it>
> Subject: Re: Topband: 4W6A
> To: <topband@contesting.com>
> Message-ID: <4396B1A15D704EBCA19080870EC6442E@ballardi7a1c95>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>    reply-type=original
> 
> ......and judging by the response, an excellent  showing was made on 160M.
> Thanks once again..
> Kev
> M0TNX
> Assistant QSL manager/web admin
> 
> 
> 
> Just out of curiosity, I'd like to read lots of comments from the other 
> European topbanders .
> 
> 73 John  IK4GME 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
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> 
> End of Topband Digest, Vol 105, Issue 29
> ****************************************
> 
_______________________________________________
UR RST IS ... ... ..9 QSB QSB - hw? BK

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