Very well said Mark, thank you.
Brian K8BHZ
On 5/21/2017 4:29 PM, Mark K3MSB wrote:
The issue is not one of any mode being more "valid" that the other,
nor is it one of a QSO being "valid" or "invalid" based upon the
mode. If a two way exchange is completed between two legally
licensed amateur stations using lawfully authorized modes, the QSO is
valid. I think it's that simple.
But that's not what I had brought up in my post of several days
ago. The issue I brought up is that of a level playing field for
competition / award purposes.
Modes that require a computer to effect a QSO should be in a different
category than modes that do not. By "require" I do not mean "make
easier", but rather could not be accomplished without a computer.
My ICOM makes a QSO easier than my ARC-5s, but both still need a
human's skill to complete the QSO. Stated alternately, modes that
requires a human skill should be categorized differently than those
that do not -- and by human skill I do not mean downloading software
and pushing buttons. As someone pointed out, the DXCC rules are not
part of the 10 commandments. It is my opinion that technology has
reached a new level in which the rules need to be changed to
accommodate that level.
The same is true of remote operations. I can whip out my credit
card and use a station on the west coat and get my 5 remaining zones
on 80 to complete my 5BWAZ. I will not do that as I feel it is
unsportsmanlike to do so. Are the QSOs legal as per the rules? Yes
(unless CQ has changed them recently). But, to my way of thinking,
the journey is an important part of getting to the destination.
This issue is not about validating someone's worth as a "real
amateur" (no code, know code, extra light etc), but rather
recognizing that human skill in achieving a goal should be treated
differently than letting a computer alone achieve the same goal that
requires no such skill.
There is nothing wrong with the JT modes; they are a wonderful
advancement in communications technology in the spirit of the
advancement of amateur radio. But in the light of competition based
upon human striving and skill, they are in a different category.
They are not good or bad, they are not valid or invalid; they are
just different. Technology has moved on to the point where the
existing rules need to be changed.
Mark K3MSB
On May 21, 2017 6:20 AM, "Mike va3mw" <va3mw@portcredit.net
<mailto:va3mw@portcredit.net>> wrote:
Glenn nailed it.
If you don't like it, don't use it. No one is forcing anyone to
comply.
It is really that simple.
Mike va3mw
> On May 21, 2017, at 6:09 AM, Glenn Wyant <va3dx@sympatico.ca
<mailto:va3dx@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
>
> If an amateur has interest in psk, jt65 etc or EME, cw or any band
> or mode; it is not for us to judge his particular interests.
>
> VA3DX
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <k8bhz@alphacomm.net
<mailto:k8bhz@alphacomm.net>>
> To: <Topband@contesting.com <mailto:Topband@contesting.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, May 20, 2017 11:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Topband: Top Band and JT65
>
>
>> Promised myself I'd stay out of this, but it's getting
ridiculous....Comments like "I worked 20 new ones on 160, and I
never heard any of them!". Wow! That's amazing...I personally
can't find any satisfaction in claiming a contact I never heard. I
never have...Yes, the digi modes allow easier qso's that would
never have been made, but let's face it, you never made those
contacts, your computer & it's software did. Any resulting
"Awards" should be made out to your computer. Meteor scatter used
to be very popular, actually getting to hear the excited voices of
those you worked was thrilling. One m/s qso of mine was with a yl
from the Carolinas with a most delightful Southern accent...hard
to duplicate with digi modes. I don't know anyone who works or
talks about rocks anymore....no challenge. Same with eme, which I
pulled the plug on when it was no longer a challenge. How many new
eme operators have heard their own voices coming back from the
moon? I migrated to TopBand as
one of the last real challenges left....
>> I find the litany of excuses about why one has to go to digital
means on 160 to be feeble at best." My rig can't cut it, I don't
have the antennas, I can't copy code (one of the real elephants in
the room!), my location isn't on the coast where it's easy, etc,
etc". There are MANY dxers operating successfully on small lots,
and there are a myriad of clever, small receiving antennas out
there. How about the gentleman on the left coast who worked DXCC
on 160 from his mobile!! (without digital modes).
>> My TopBand rig is quite modest, no towers or rotors. The TX
antennas are wires hanging from trees with no more than 50'
vertical rise. The 16 radials under each are only 48' long.
Desperately needing a new rig, I bought the very cheapest HF
transceiver on the market (no DSP, keyer, antenna tuner, etc). My
location in Upper Michigan is not near either coast for "easy" dx,
but is unfortunately close to the auroral oval. My amp was a
non-working "gift" that doesn't run full power. However, I have
233 countries & 37 zones confirmed on 160. I have personally HEARD
every qso made & have decoded them as necessary, in my HEAD. I
don't spot myself or arrange skeds....I don't have a computer in
the shack.
>> If ham radio was to go all digital, I would walk away from
it....Not because I'm a curmudgeon, but simply because the
challenge and resulting thrills would be gone.
>> Lest you think I am a ignorant technophobe, I am a degreed
electrical engineer and have been a ham for over 60 years. I have
a fine computer & am on it actively every day....but I never
pretend that it's ham radio.
>> I realize from the comment below that it's rather boring to
work digi modes, but I suspect that help is on the way....I am
truly surprised that no one has produced an "app" that will take
the remaining work out of it. You would simply download the app,
check the appropriate boxes (DXCC, WAS, WAZ), select the desired
bands, and turn it loose 24 hours a day. It would make all the
contacts for you (with similar robo-stations) and send you a text
or email when it's through. Heck, it could even apply for your
desired awards, and then wake up your printer to print your award
certificate out! It would then send another message to pick up
your award....How truly exciting that would be.
>> Brian K8BHZ
>> 2017 12:39 AM, DXer wrote:
>>> >>>To me, just not the challenge of dxing mostly cw and ssb.
>>>
>>> Fair enough. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
>>>
>>> Another angle. I find JT65 to be a very relaxing mode. Which
other mode allows one to read and write emails, go get a coffee,
answer 'nature's call', etc. while making contacts? Timing is
important, but doable. :^)
>>>
>>> 73 de Vince, VA3VF
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