Indeed you are correct, Duane.
In fact since the late 90s, almost all low-cost transceivers that were
produced in Japan have been dirty, but they were mostly dirty with respect
to broadband phase noise. I suspect that is what the 430 was doing to you.
The FT-450D is even dirtier.
In addition to its broadband phase noise, it also has very bad IMD on its
higher order products. The spec calls for measuring the 3rd order. But
what about 5th order, 7th order, etc. It's not just the 3rd order that
can disturb our neighbors on the band; it's all harmonic distortion.
I just now uploaded a chart showing the FT-450's IMD to my web site.
It is at the bottom of this page:
http://www.dj0ip.de/gallery/tx-spectral-purity-imd/
NOW, take a look at the Yaesu [mis]representation of this radio in its
advertisement.
They brag about its mosfet finals and eve picture the transistors in some
of their ads.
SHAME on Yaesu!
WE MUST STOP THIS NONESENSE BEFORE IT DESTROYS OUR BANDS.
It doesn't really matter where it was made; results count.
Yaesu owns this responsibility.
73 - Rick, DJ0IP
(Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Duane
Calvin
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 3:26 PM
To: 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'
Subject: Re: [TenTec] OT: Chinese Amplifiers
Two points:
1. Isn't the FT-450 designed by Yaesu's Japanese engineers - same team as
their other rigs? Isn't Yaesu quality control still the issue, not the
Chinese build?
2. This isn't the first dirty transceiver. The Kenwood TS-430, for
example had horrible tranmit phase noise and other spurious in-band
garbage. I was never so happy as when my neighbor ham, two streets away,
got rid of his TS-430 and replaced it with a TS-570. Huge improvement at
my QTH.
73, Duane
(American designed and built Orion 565AT still available here! Inquire
within!)
Duane Calvin, AC5AA
Austin, Texas
www.ac5aa.com
-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Rick -
DJ0IP / NJ0IP
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 8:15 AM
To: 'Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment'
Subject: Re: [TenTec] OT: Chinese Amplifiers
George, that is a fair point.
However so far, the radios I have seen manufactured in China have had very
dirty transmitters.
The VHF radios I own (two different Chinese brands) both have very poor
front ends in them.
I've "heard" their transmitters are dirty, but I haven't seen actual
measurements, so for the moment, that's hear-say.
So far it seems the track record of radios made in China is not very good.
However you are correct, we should not generalize unless we have known
facts.
So I'll repeat my point; the FT-450 is FILTHY. That's a known fact.
Its harmonic distortion is as much as 29dB (twenty nine dB) worse than a
Collins 30S3.
This was measured and reported by Rob Sherwood.
If that is an indication of what is coming, we're in big trouble on the
ham bands.
If we don't criticize it as it comes, then it will be our own faults when
it is pervasive.
73 - Rick, DJ0IP
(Nr. Frankfurt am Main)
-----Original Message-----
From: TenTec [mailto:tentec-bounces@contesting.com] On Behalf Of george
fritkin via TenTec
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 2:20 PM
To: Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment
Subject: Re: [TenTec] OT: Chinese Amplifiers
As the former CEO of a large electronics company, I really object to this
out of hand criticism of not made in USA manufacturing, and stating that
we just slap labels on products without justification. Have any of you
ever been in a modern factory in Chine? Under my command, our quality
standards and honesty were world wide and the same
George, W6GF
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:11 AM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX
<RMcGraw@Blomand.net> wrote:
Indeed true. Very well stated and one to which we should all take heed.
73
Bob, K4TAX
----- Original Message -----
From: "José Félix Ballester" <jfballester@gmail.com>
To: "Discussion of Ten-Tec Equipment" <tentec@contesting.com>
Cc: "Kimberly Elmore" <cw_de_n5op@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 10:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TenTec] OT: Chinese Amplifiers
Been there suffered that. That’s the way totalitarian governments
(economies ) operate and if they are run by communists who like many
religions want to dominate those who don’t think like them, they will do
whatever they believe will work to their advantage and to their “enemies”
disadvantage. Yeah, let’s continue to purchase their stuff… They are not
Japan (today) nor Taiwan though Taiwan may soon soon be absorbed my her
bigger neighbor and we won’t be able to do anything to prevent it. I won’t
be around to suffer the consequences but unfortunately my grand kids or
great grand kids will. We continue to invest in their power building to
our detriment. Hope and pray that I an completely wrong.
73, Pepe WP3HW
On May 28, 2014, at 2:22 PM, K8JHR <jrichards@k8jhr.com> wrote:
On 5/28/2014 1:48 PM, Kimberly Elmore wrote:
How is it that the Chinese make these so cheaply? Is all the cost in
labor, or do the Chinese make
_____________________________________________
Communism, Comrade. The Chinese government supports and runs its whole
economy and it has decided to run certain sectors at a loss while it
builds
up infrastructure and steals business from the established Western
markets.
Undercutting the Western markets with what is known (to companies like
Walmart) as "predatory pricing." Walmart has been cited for this in GA
and
AL and the like - it moves in and sells bottles of aspirin for seventeen
cents, and when Mom and Pop local store goes under, it puts the price back
up to regular and owns the market. No I am not dissing Walmart pe se, but
this is a fact and has been in the news for many years, and Walmart has
paid
millions in fines for doing it, but it just eats the fines as a cost of
doing business, and moves on to the next town and thereby became the
economic leviathan it is today.
So, how can a Chinese guy on eBay sell a $2 switch for $1 and include
shipping? Easy, the whole deal from building the plan, to acquiring
resources, and shipping to customers, is subsidized by the government and
the rest of its economy, and it sells at a loss -- toss in cheap labor,
lower cost of development (they copy our stuff and violate patents with no
apparent remorse or shame), and use cheap substandard components (spend a
little time researching transistor quality and bootlegging issues on the
i-net) and they employ lower mfg tolerances, and ignore the cost of
pollution and put up with it instead of cleaning it up, and consider loads
of other factors, and you get stuff for cheap, undercutting the US and EU
markets, and shifting the balance of trade, and the flow of currency...,
and
more... and know eventually they will be the only guys making stuff -
then,
as in the Walmart example, they will up the price and recoup the losses
they
incurred early on. Look at the Beijing Olympics... they had to shut the
town down for several days to allow the pollution to subside just to keep
from choking the competitors... even then it was awful and was a problem.
We must pay to clean up our environment. This is just one saving we
cannot
legally afford.
Anyone can do this if they have sufficient opportunity, capital, and
financing to run at a loss until the competition succumbs. US companies
shift their manufacturing facilities there, their design facilities there,
and wonder why no one is working here any more... Hmmm... can you say
"bankruptcy?" I can and made a pot full off it. But when nobody has a
real
job any more, TT and the rest of us will be up a tree.
The good news is that SOME US companies are getting creative and digging
in,
making stuff in different ways, and with different materials, and with
higher quality, and there is a bit of a surge in US manufacturing of late.
Whether it will make it overall is a question we cannot yet answer, but
there IS a bit of a positive trend. The Electrolux plant closed about 7
years ago, and moved to Mexico; but they want to come back because US
workers work harder, more carefully, and don't siesta on really hot days.
Oddly, the Union tried to block it. So there are nutty trends all over.
But not hard to imagine how they make cheap parts and distribute and sell
cheap all over the world. Easy when you don't have to pay your own bills.
Monitor international debt figures... it is confusing, and amazing, at the
same time.
Just My take.
All I can say... is all this negativism is bring me down and hardly
helping
TT reorganize and make a profit.
Some have wondered why TT got into that arduino thing... but looking at
the
covers of QST and other ham magazines, and seeing what was presented at
Dayton forums, and looking at the rise of the Maker thing and seeing the
THEME of the Dayton Hamvention was "MAKERS"... and seeing how much of
that
is going on... one should realize TT is ON THE CUTTING EDGE OF IT... and
the
only difference between now and then, is what they are making is
different.
They are not making Heathkit type kits... but the ARE MAKING STUFF...
digital and small computer stuff... and the local guys are into it big
time... and maybe, must maybe, TT IS ON THE LEADING EDGE AGAIN.
But still, all this doom, gloom and negativism based on mere speculation
is
getting depressing.
Just MY take... your mileage may vary.
===================== JR ================================
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