Mike, data modes with bandwidths of about 2.4 kHz have been in use on
HF for at least 13 years.
Huh? The only 2.4 KHz bandwidth digital protocol in use in amateur
service is PACTOR III. From the SCS web site:
At the first of May 2002 SCS introduced the new developed high speed
data mode PACTOR-III. PACTOR-III is a third generation HF protocol
building on latest developments in 2-dimensional orthogonal pulse
shaping, advanced error control coding, and efficient source coding.
That makes PACTOR III only 12 years old and it was certainly not in
widespread use for a year or so after introduction. That makes K1ZZ's
estimate off by two to three years (20 to 30%).
Stretch credibility just a little?
73,
... Joe, W4TV
On 2014-06-05 11:02 AM, W0MU Mike Fatchett wrote:
FYI. Read the entire chain.
Apparently, the ARRL feels that it does not need to adhere to the all
the rules that the rest of us do and they effectively own or have the
exclusive right to their bulletin and practice frequencies.
All you need to do is publish an operating schedule and you too can own
whatever frequency you want?
I am aghast at his response, that it is ok for W1AW to maliciously
interfere with another amateur using a frequency.
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: ARRL W1AW Bulletin Operations
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:54:12 +0000
From: Sumner, Dave, K1ZZ <dsumner@arrl.org>
To: 'W0MU Mike Fatchett' <w0mu@w0mu.com>
Mike, data modes with bandwidths of about 2.4 kHz have been in use on HF
for at least 13 years. RTTY/data and phone/image have separate subbands.
Changing that would be a major change. RM-11708 proposes a minor change
to prevent the use of much wider data bandwidths and more efficient use
of the bandwidth now in use. Why is that a bad thing?
W1AW does not operate under automatic control. There is a control
operator on duty at all times the station is in operation. Transmissions
are made on published frequencies and at published times, and have been
for decades. If you follow your logic to its natural conclusion then
somebody could just shut down the bulletin and code practice function by
squatting on those frequencies.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: W0MU Mike Fatchett [mailto:w0mu@w0mu.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:42 AM
To: Sumner, Dave, K1ZZ
Subject: Re: ARRL W1AW Bulletin Operations
Dave,
113 a 3 iv talks about compensation for the control Ops. That was not
my question.
My concern is with any station not just W1AW firing up on a specific
frequency without checking to see if it is busy. No where in the rule
above does it say that all the other rules can be ignored. Transmitting
on a frequency without checking if it is busy is contrary to all the
published operating guides by the ARRL and contrary to the FCC rules.
Where in the rules does it give any station the authority to fire up on
any frequency without checking?
The rule says you may pay your control op if you have to have a schedule
and it has to be published. It does not mean that the schedule must be
followed at all costs. The FCC has stated many times that no net,
organization or otherwise own or control any frequency unless they are
using it. When I stop using a frequency it if free to be used by the
next person. If I am using a frequency I should be able to continue to
use that frequency until I am finished.
Are you saying that there is a control operator on duty at all times
when the bulletins are being sent? I always thought it was an automated
process. If there was a control op in charge at the time of this issue
why did he/she allow the transmission on top of a frequency in use?
This behavior would be in violation of the rules would it not?
Any proposals could and should have moved the wideband transmissions
into the wideband area ie SSB and SSTV. The proposal could and should
have set a much lower limit on signals in the cw portions to something
much less than 2.8khz.
Pactor 4 and winlink will take over our cw bands with transmissions much
like the W1AW broadcasts. No need to check if the frequencies are busy,
just transmit, wipe out the cw or rtty that was there and do whatever it
is they do. These wide band data modes can easily deal with narrow band
noise which was why the proposal moved them into the cw bands. They
cannot deal with wide band noise like SSB ans SSTV.
If W1AW does not have to check if a frequency is in use then why should
anyone else? These so called automated systems either ignore
frequencies in use or just don't care. There are many complaints about
many of the other modes just coming on and causing interference.
Mike W0MU
On 6/5/2014 6:50 AM, Sumner, Dave, K1ZZ wrote:
Mike,
The bulletin transmissions must conform to the published schedule in
order to comply with 97.113(a)(3)(iv). 18 MHz is problematic because
the band is narrow, but it provides excellent coverage.
2.8 kHz HF data signals are permitted now and have been in use for
more than a decade. What RM-11708 would do is to limit the bandwidth
to that rather than to continue the status quo, which allows much
wider bandwidths.
73,
Dave K1ZZ
-----Original Message-----
From: W0MU Mike Fatchett [mailto:w0mu@w0mu.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 8:49 PM
To: Sumner, Dave, K1ZZ
Subject: ARRL W1AW Bulletin Operations
Dave,
Apparently in the last few days it was reported that W1AW came up on
18.100 and started the Bulletin. Unfortunately, one of the W1AW/X
stations was on that frequency.
I have been going over the rules and I would like to understand why
W1AW does not check for a busy frequency prior to firing up. Where in
the FCC rules is this allowed. I am sure that I would be subject to a
pink slip if I decided to fire up on top of W1AW or face much peer
retribution wouldn't I?
Sadly if RM-11708 passes we will all be subject to 2.8khz signals
firing up on top of people using a frequency just like W1AW does.
Maybe you can explain the difference to me.
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