Actually I was only contemplating single-band operation. The Sprint format is
really interesting and has quite a history. It was created by W6OAT probably 30
years ago (wish I had been at that gathering), and really took off when N6ZFO
created the NS Sprint (sponsored by NCCC). It is in the NS Sprint that the
format has really evolved. Many of the best CW ops in North America participate
in the Thursday evening NS Sprints. They know each other, know what will be
sent, so the only thing they need is the serial number. These folks have honed
to protocol to an art - thus the order of the exchange really matters. If the
sender’s call comes early in the exchange, it means that it is coming from the
CQer. If late, it is an invitation for others to call, basically a short form
for the CQ. In general, it works quite well in NS Sprint.
A problem arises when someone sends the wrong exchange, telling others that it
is OK to call, or in my case, sending over the other stations exchange. In this
case, order does matter. But, as has been pointed out, there is an additional
potential problem if the CQer doesn’t acknowledge receipt of the S&P station’s
exchange. I received both R and dit-dit after many Qs, but definitely not all.
If the station needs a fill, then there is simply no opportunity to request it
if there is no ack, especially if a stronger station starts calling at the same
time. For those of us who are network protocol engineers, that lack of a
closing ack is non-sensical.
What’s the answer? First, participate in NS Sprint. These folks know the ins
and outs of the Sprint format, and are constantly discussing ways to make it
better. They may have gone a little extra in not using an ack (I emphasize that
not all skip it), and will have suggestions as to how to improve your (and my)
operation. Secondly, they are open to suggestions and are quite willing to
discuss improvements. Most likely, they have already tried many of our
suggestions, and if so can tell us how it fared, and why it was or wasn’t
adopted.
NS Sprint is held on Thursday evenings local time, Friday UTC at 0230 - 0300Z.
More info at: https://www.ncccsprint.com/
They also have an email list where these things are discussed - see the web
page for info.
73,
Jack, W6FB
ps - thanks to N6ZFO for the prod...
> On Feb 5, 2024, at 9:00 AM, Chris Plumblee <chris.plumblee@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Barry,
>
> The problem that Jack is alluding to is specific to QSO’s on a second and
> third band when you’re running. You really only need the caller’s number; you
> already have their name and state. At one time, unscrupulous ops would copy
> the number and tune away, leaving the report unacknowledged and the person
> who’d inherited the frequency unsure if they should log the QSO or not.
>
> I’ve been a middling sprinter for a little while - the software makes it
> difficult to flub the order of the exchange elements and there are always
> edge cases (Tnx W1NVT and VE7ZO for the sprint QSOs when you weren’t in the
> Sprint, for example). I would not be in favor of mandating the order of the
> exchange because that suggests that you throw out QSOs that weren’t completed
> in the proper order.
>
> For a while, the fashion was to send just a “dit dit” as an acknowledgement.
> Peer pressure has worked to make the standard acknowledgement either “X”
> (“TU” run together) or “R”. It’s still an art to detect whether you got an
> acknowledgement when you have a couple of new, loud callers.
>
> 73,
> Chris W4WF
>
> Chris Plumblee
> 407.494.5155
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024 at 8:55 AM Barry Jacobson <bdj@alum.mit.edu
> <mailto:bdj@alum.mit.edu>> wrote:
>> Hi Jack, I don't think Steve's issue is the same as yours. Suppose
>> everybody followed the format as you suggest. There is still a problem. In
>> a normal contest when running, and after getting the caller's info verified
>> correct, you would say TU QRZ W6FB. That let's the previous guy know that
>> you copied him correctly, and let's the next guys know when it's time to
>> jump.
>>
>> In the sprint, you are not allowed to say QRZ without 5 KHz QSY. So how
>> does the responding station know that the CQer copied him correctly and
>> doesn't need a fill just because the responder concluded with his own call.
>> And then if everybody jumps at that point, the caller may not be able to
>> get a fill that he needs. This is what I believe Steve is addressing.
>> Before jumping, one needs to hear from the previous CQer some type of
>> acknowledgement that he copied the responder properly and is finished with
>> QSO. Only then should people jump in.
>>
>> This is how I understand Steve N2IC.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Barry WA2VIU
>>
>> --
>> Barry Jacobson
>> WA2VIU
>> bdj@alum.mit.edu <mailto:bdj@alum.mit.edu>
>> @bdj_phd
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 5, 2024, 7:48 AM Jack Brindle via CQ-Contest <
>> cq-contest@contesting.com <mailto:cq-contest@contesting.com>> wrote:
>>
>> > Nice troll, Steve, but I’ll bite.
>> >
>> > There actually is a problem in NA Sprint. It involves the exchange order.
>> > It seems the Sprint format has evolved over the years, and that has been
>> > brought into NA Sprint in the form of “unwritten rules”.
>> >
>> > The NA Sprint rules, for the exchange, state:
>> > "7. Exchange: To have a valid exchange, you must send all of the following
>> > information:
>> > The other station’s call sign, your call sign, a sequential serial number,
>> > your name,
>> > and your location (state, province or country). You may send this
>> > information in any order.
>> > For example:
>> > N6TR K7GM 154 RICK NC
>> > K7GM 122 TREE OR N6TR
>> >
>> > Note that it fully states that either format (or any other) is perfectly
>> > OK. But, in practice, this is not the case. The unwritten rule states that
>> > when you send CQ, you must send the exchange as follows:
>> > N6TR K7GM 154 RICK NC
>> > and when doing the S&P role, your exchange must take the form:
>> > K7GM 122 TREE OR N6TR
>> >
>> > I used the second form for my exchange. Eight very experienced Sprinters
>> > responded over the end of my call, so that I did not hear the beginning of
>> > their transmission, including the serial number. I managed to get a fill
>> > from a few, but the rest will look forward to a NIL.
>> >
>> > One of the rules we push to new contesters is to read the rules before a
>> > contest. In this case the rules lead you astray.
>> >
>> > The SSB Sprint has the same rule, but they also have a tips section that
>> > explains the format you should use for the exchange whether you are running
>> > or S&P. That tips section is referred to in the exchange rule.
>> >
>> > My suggestion is that it is time to take a good look at the NA Sprint
>> > rules and bring them up to date with these new unwritten rules which have
>> > evolved over time. If the order matters (and it is clear that it does),
>> > then the rules should say so!
>> >
>> > Otherwise we have a contest that is very unfriendly to new contestants who
>> > don’t know the unwritten rules. This type of contest will eventually die…
>> >
>> > 73,
>> > Jack, W6FB
>> >
>> > > On Feb 4, 2024, at 5:02 PM, Steve London <n2icarrl@gmail.com
>> > > <mailto:n2icarrl@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > There's been some grousing about Sprint QSO's not being acked, or the ack
>> > > getting covered by other stations calling.
>> > >
>> > > May I suggest we all use RR73 to ack in the September Sprint ?
>> > >
>> > > 73,
>> > > Steve, N2IC
>> > > _______________________________________________
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>> > > http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>> >
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