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[Amps] re: Magic values for "Glitch" Resistors in HV Pwr Sply

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Subject: [Amps] re: Magic values for "Glitch" Resistors in HV Pwr Sply
From: Ian White, G3SEK" <g3sek@ifwtech.co.uk (Ian White, G3SEK)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 19:56:01 +0000
Jim's EBAY Account wrote:

>To the collective intellect abroad at "AMPS"...  <}:<}
>
>Regarding the use of surge limiting resistors in high voltage plate
>supplies:
>
>Once, somewhere, I read that the surge limiting resistor should be of a
>value
>that will drop at least 25% of the plate voltage at 5 times the normal "max"
>current of the supply.  And, the wattage rating should be exceeded by a
>factor of 10 or more at that current (so it will fail as needed - like a
>fuse).

Don't know where you might have read that, but it doesn't look like good 
advice, for two reasons...

[This information comes from Eimac Bulletin #17 on 'Fault Protection', 
downloadable at: www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/misc/bull17.pdf (about 65KB)]

1. The kinds of surge the resistors are protecting against are likely to 
be low-resistance arcs, either inside or outside the tube. These are 
pretty close to a crowbar short from B+ to ground, so  current will not 
stop at 5 times normal! It is limited only by the internal resistance 
and inductance of the reservoir capacitor... and by the surge limiting 
resistor.

Eimac recommend limiting the current to 40A for tubes up to 1500W anode 
dissipation, so the value of the surge resistor should be the B+ voltage 
divided by 40A (lower values down to even 10 ohms seem to protect the 
tubes OK, but Eimac stay on the safe side).

2. The purpose of the glitch resistor is NOT to blow like a fuse! It is 
to hang in there and limit the current until SOMETHING ELSE switches or 
blows to disconnect the whole system from the mains.

[End of information taken directly from Bulletin #17]

>
>Let's do some math.
>
>If this is correct, a typical application might be:
>
>50 ohm, 100 watt ceramic power resistor in negative lead of a 5000
>vdc 1.0 amp CCS Power Supply
>
>...where,
>
>UNDER NORMAL CONDITIONS (under 1 ampere load):
>
>Plate B+     "Normal"         Volts dropped         Watts used at
>Voltage       max  Iplate      at "normal" Iplate     "normal" Iplate
>
>5000 vdc      1.0 amp         50  volts                  50 watts
>                                                                        (1/2
>the resistor's rating!)
>
That seems good...

>UNDER SURGE CONDITIONS (5 times normal current, or 5 amp surge):
>
Way too optimistic

[...]

>
>It is fairly obvious that the resistor will probably fail before a surge
>reaches, say,
>5 amps because 5 amps takes the resistor to over 62 times its power rating.
>
No, that resistor shouldn't ever fail, because there MUST be something 
else designed to switch or blow first.

>Here's the question...
>
>What is the best "type" of power resistor for this?  I read somewhere that
>normal
>ceramic power resistors can stand about 500 volts of "drop" per inch, but
>that
>they tend to be very "forgiving" with short duration surges, meaning they
>fail slowly.
>
The "volts per inch" rating is important, because the surge resistor 
must NEVER arc along its length. Physically long resistors are obviously 
best, and many people have had good experience with the long, thin 
vitreous enamel coated wirewound resistors of 15/17W rating.

The glass coating over the wire prevents surface arcing, and a string 
made up of typically 3 or 4 10-ohm resistors will handle the normal 
power dissipation in a 1.5kW amp.

In surge conditions those resistors will comfortably handle at least 
1-1.5kV each for a few milliseconds - which is as long as they should 
need to hang in there, before something else shuts down the entire amp.

For higher voltage and power ratings, connect more resistors of lower 
values in series.

>Many commercial HV power supplies I have repaired have large 'carborundum'
>type resistors - (expensive and hard to find surplus in the right values)

The carborundum type resistors are highly regarded, because they 
generally have a very good volts/inch rating. On the other hand, with a 
chain of the smaller wirewound types you can keep the volts/inch well 
down, and also fold up the chain to save space.

> in
>series
>with special HV fuses (also expensive and hard to find).
>
Some people use HV fuses, others use a mains fuse or circuit breaker, or 
a mains contactor triggered by a circuit that continuously monitors 
anode current.

>Would the "dale" type power resistors that bolt to a chassis work better or
>worse?

Don't use them - they are only rated at about 2kV from case to interior, 
and the insulation tends to break down with use. Many people won't even 
use them for mains voltages. They also have very poor overload 
performance.

>( I have attached a picture..! - Virus-free! Promise!)
>
(This is a plain-text-only list, so the list server removed the 
attachment automatically.)

>What are the pros and cons of each type?  It seems the "dale" bolt-down
>would
>tend to minimize 'shrapnel' in the power supply (if it blows) due to its
>basic design.
>
On the other hand, the metal case acts like a gun barrel...

>What are the "rules of thumb" with regards to joules (watt-seconds) ratings
>in such
>a case?  My present project application will produce 5000 VDC at 1.0 amp,
>and I want to be such the tube is protected.  I am currently considering 50
>ohms
>at 100 watts.
>

If you intend to run a supply of that size at full ratings, you need the 
best protection you can get. A nice loooooong carborundum resistor is 
the way to go.


-- 
73 from Ian G3SEK         'In Practice' columnist for RadCom (RSGB)
                            Editor, 'The VHF/UHF DX Book'
http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek

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