Amps
[Top] [All Lists]

[AMPS] Re:

To: <amps@contesting.com>
Subject: [AMPS] Re:
From: measures@vc.net (Rich Measures)
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:55:30 -0700


>
>> Tom said:
>> > A good meter is more reliable than a scope.
>> What does that mean? Meters have a longer MTBF than Oscilloscopes?
>
>Well, they do but that isn't what I meant.You are supposed to read 
>peak envelope power, a good meter will store the highest crest that 
>comes along.
>
>It's incorrect to think you need to look at one cycle, or that a meter 
>can't catch and register the envelope accurately. The rise time and 
>fall time of the envelope is extended by the bandwidth of the 
>transmitter. You have at least a few thousand RF cycles to 
>"capture" the peak over, not just one.
>
>If we assume the highest modulating frequency is 3500 Hz with a 
>sine wave (can be square, or it won't go through the SSB filter) the 
>time from start to full to zero is 1/7000 second. The storage 
>system in the meter has half the full rise time of that gradual slope 
>available to charge the storage capacitor.
>
>1/14000th of a second is not real fast.   
> 
>> The waveform envelope is limited by filters to 3000 Hz, an audio limit.
>> But does not the FCC regulations state that the power is to be measured
>> over one RF cycle? At 30 Mhz = 33.3 nano-seconds At 1.8 Mhz = 555
>> nano-seconds
>
>FCC regulations say no such thing. You have 128 full RF cycles on 
>160 meters to build charge to the peak, and over 2100 RF cycles 
>on ten meters.
>
>The amplifier itself can not go from zero to full power in 555 
>nanoseconds or less, let alone the restricted BW of the transmitter.
>
>> rectifier time-constant is 40 micro-seconds, then in 3 time constants most
>> of the prior information will be bled off and the circuit will be ready
>> for the next pulse. Some of the circuits I have looked at had 15
>> millisecond time-constants. Somehow either I am missing something very
>> simple or my logic is faulty! I think Rich is using a good system. The
>> bandwidth of the scope is more than adequate and will not miss in-between
>> pulses. The FCC says power is measured over one RF cycle.
>
>Where does it say that? They say peak ENVELOPE power, not 
>cycle by cycle power.
>
?  Oscilloscopes can be used to measure peak amplitude of virtually any 
waveform.  Peak amplitude of the RF sinewave and peak envelope amplitude 
are the same thing.  .  

>Even if they did, what would it mean anyway? 

?  Knowing peak RF amplitude means that you can calculate PEP - provided 
that you know R and you can remember that P=E^2/R.  .  .  

> Even your amplifier 
>can't respond that fast! If you had a nanosecond time frame 
>envelope peak, your signal would be many megacycles wide. 
>Violating a power rule would be the least of your worries with a 
>signal like that!

?  The calibrated 'scope is used to measure peak voltage of the RF 
sinewave. 
>
>When the FCC measures power, they use a regular peak reading 
>meter. .....

?  wanna guess how such meters are ultimately calibrated?.  

-  cheers


Rich...

R. L. Measures, 805-386-3734, AG6K, www.vcnet.com/measures  


--
FAQ on WWW:               http://www.contesting.com/ampfaq.html
Submissions:              amps@contesting.com
Administrative requests:  amps-REQUEST@contesting.com
Problems:                 owner-amps@contesting.com
Search:                   http://www.contesting.com/km9p/search.htm


<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>